Changes in the US

[BB707]

With this historic change in the minds of the American voters, electing a African American to the position of President could we expect changes to the attitudes of African Americans and towards African Americans? (AA)

One would expect that the attitudes of the AA would gather some esteem within their own hearts and minds, and give them a greater empetus to achieve things in their own life to improve the status quo.

Could we expect that fewer AA would be now jailed, not stop committing crimes, but not being jailed as the judges and the rest of the public look differently at the situations, and in so doing seek favour with the majority by lessening the sentences of AA.

Could we even expect a turn around of racial discrimination?

Could we expect that equally qualified AA will be employed on that basis with out the usual bias that one has seen for many years?

I have no idea to the answer to these questions, and only the ones at the 'mine face' will feel the idiology movements of the masses in the US.

[louie the laig break]

That issue is a hot-potato for sure. Any answer would be nothing but ones own opinion.
Having said that, I sense a large surge of energy and pride in our AA folks. There is now a sense of hope that wasn't there before..
People are still getting used to the idea that a man of color is now the overwhelmingly popular President of the US.

On another note of "bitter reality", racism will not go away. It's been with us for thousands of years and I don't see things changing much.
Yes things are better, there are some people that overlook racial or religious or origin discrimination.
Down deep when most see anyone different, an automatic wall goes up..

Even the most self-proclaimed liberals among us here in OF enjoy tossing out discriminatory labels and call it humor.

[Auntie Freda]

Even the most self-proclaimed liberals among us here in OF enjoy tossing out discriminatory labels and call it humor.
Hey Louie, do you perchance mean stuff like those "liberal criminal lovers.."?
Ok I have removed that offensive half truth tag. It was an attempt at wry humor. Nothing more :)
I guess we're all guilty at times.

[BB707]

Australai Day hs just passed here Louie, adn again Aboriginal leaders are making more and more waves agaist the European settlement of this country.

One particular noted Aboriginal leader, Professor Mick Dodson, as pointed out that Australia Day is called invasion day by some aboriginal and some aboriginal support groups. Yes,they have the ususal do-gooders that are against the European settlement of this land becasue it is now popular to do so.

It would be ludicrous to beleive that if Cpt.Cook had not planted the British flag at Botany Bay that Australia woudl still be in the hnads of a mixed indigenous race.

According to a Commonwealth Government fact sheet, Muslims were here in and around the 1500s and bred with the aboriginals women of that time.

The sitution is different to that of America, as the AA were brought to the US as slaves. Here, as was the case of the Nations of the time, teh Aboriginal became a conqured nation on its own soil.

I think that we can all be very thankful that out of a bad bunch that were roaming the earth in search of new land, new victories, that it was the European that landed here instead of the Spanish, the Dutch/Portugese combination or any of the near Asian neighbours.

If you look at the Spanish invaders of Montezuma's people, where millions of local indigeous people were wiped out for the gold hoards that were stolen and taken back to Catholic Spain, or the atrocities inflicted on local peoples by the Dutch Eat Indies Company (Singapore is still considering suing the Netherlands over its "invsion" of that Asian country), or if you look at the prospect for Australian aboriginals if Japan had taken over this land, I think that there would be no indigenous people left to complain or to have large support groups causing many to protest about things that do not even understand.

I admit that the Europeans could have done it better, but that is past adn cannot be repaired by throwing money at them, as has been proved, as it only leasd to corruption and failure by te aborigianlleaders to spend the money on the targets it is aimed for.

Question: Is there a 'tribal' distinction amongst the AA in the US? I know the slaves came form Africa, but even there at the time there were groups of Africans warring amongst each other.

When Cook landed here the natives that met him were carrying spears and shields indicating that they were a warring group of different tribes with different territories. Different elders and tribe leaders, adn like most tribal situations fought each other for foos areas, and for the young girls of the opposing tribes to invigorate theri own stock. The history of the Australian aboriginal is filled with stolen generations of young girls taken from their parents, at least 6000 years of it anyway.

[Auntie Freda]

It would be ludicrous to beleive that if Cpt.Cook had not planted the British flag at Botany Bay that Australia woudl still be in the hnads of A MIXED INDIGENOUS RACE . ???????

According to a Commonwealth Government fact sheet, MUSLIMS were here in and around the 1500s and BRED WITH ABORIGINALS WOMEN of that time. ???????

....we can all be very thankful ... that it was the EUROPEAN that landed here INSTEAD of the Spanish, the Dutch/Portugese combination...... ???????

The history of the Australian aboriginal is filled with stolen generations of young girls taken from their parents, at least 6000 years of it anyway. !!!!!!
I wonder if he might elucidate on

(1) the "MIXED INDIGENOUS RACE"

(2) WHICH "Commonwealth Government Fact Sheet" ?
Even IF(?) a handful of Muslim explorers MIGHT have visited our shores fleetingly some 500 years ago,
their brief liasons would hardly have much impact on the racial integrity of the million or so indigenous Australians believed to have been here at that time.

(3) The Spanish, Dutch and Portugese are NOT Europeans ? Eskimos perhaps ?

(4) So, the possibility that tribal aborigines MIGHT have stolen females from each other .... ,
somehow justifies the wholesale abduction of aboriginal children by whites as recently as fifty years ago ?


NEXT .........

[BB707]

Muslims in Australia
A long and vibrant history

Muslims in Australia have a long and varied history that is thought to pre-date European settlement. Some of Australia’s earliest visitors were Muslim, from the east Indonesian archipelago. They made contact with mainland Australia as early as the 16th and 17th centuries.

(4) So, the possibility that tribal aborigines MIGHT have stolen females from each other .... ,
somehow justifies the wholesale abduction of aboriginal children by whites as recently as fifty years ago ?" Sed AF.

This appears as another irrational, clouding statement far from fact:

Just as one act does not justify another act of equal consequence, one lot of stolen generation does not justify another, no matter who perpetrated the act.

[louie the laig break]

From AF..Hey Louie, do you perchance mean stuff like those "liberal criminal lovers.."?

touche' !

LOL you don't miss a trick..:)

[BB707]

touche' !

LOL you don't miss a trick..:)

It is very noticable and very annoying how this bloke turns a discussion into an argument as if he has the sole right to comment.

I had an idea he would come in on this as I mentioned the US.

Oh! why is it not legal to use the Blackhawk on some vermin? If I had one.

[Auntie Freda]

Sorry mate,
I FORGOT that if a JW starts a thread, only those who AGREE are allowed to participate.
You and OneSillyGuy should have a barrel of fun.

Carry on.

[BB707]

Sorry mate,
I FORGOT that if a JW starts a thread, only those who AGREE are allowed to participate.
You and OneSillyGuy should have a barrel of fun.

Carry on.

Please explain what JW started Wot thread, you are taking too much morphine Old man!

What has this thread got to do with your paranioa?

At least intellignece got to show first with Louie's comment, one I would place great deal of credence upon as he is in the States, and you are in your bottle.

Please allow us one fred free zone. YOu have nothing to offer, so admit it and go find your rock.

[BB707]

I read that there is some real concern in Obama supposed to being a Muslim. IS this a real problem with his leadership?

All I can imagine is that if he tries to go against the CIA he will be assinated. and that my be a real threat in his mind.

Muslims practice their religion as a way of life, something that so called Christians do not understand as they feel holy if they go to church twice a year, not counting weddings and funerals.

Islam instructs its followers to either convert or rid the world of infidels and then ther will be peace. It is not explained the fact that Muslims are fighting amongst themselves at this very time. However the Jihardi movement is in motion, which is obviated by the terroist plots around the world.

[louie the laig break]

I read that there is some real concern in Obama supposed to being a Muslim. IS this a real problem with his leadership?

All I can imagine is that if he tries to go against the CIA he will be assinated. and that my be a real threat in his mind.

Muslims practice their religion as a way of life, something that so called Christians do not understand as they feel holy if they go to church twice a year, not counting weddings and funerals.

Islam instructs its followers to either convert or rid the world of infidels and then ther will be peace. It is not explained the fact that Muslims are fighting amongst themselves at this very time. However the Jihardi movement is in motion, which is obviated by the terroist plots around the world.

President Obama is not a Muslim. Even if he was, he is our elected president.
I remember when JFK ran and people didn't like the fact that he was a Catholic..How pathetic is that?

Obama is certainly not against the CIA either. He is the epitome of hope here now.
God help us if some nut does get through the secret service..

If that were to happen, we would see upheaval as never witnessed before.

[dawson]

I agree with you, louie, but it seems to me that Bush was a bigger target for assasination because his approval rating was the lowest in history, and that never happened. He was hated worldwide. Not by me I should add. I think he genuinely tried his best in unprecidented times of terrorism (911), economic scams, natural disasters (New Orleans), etc.

As far as Obama being Muslim? Maybe, maybe not, but what is factual is that he's a partisan left wing liberal that has an agenda to pull this country as far left as fast as he can. This will undermine individual freedoms in lieu of government control. Every one of the Republicans voted down the 800 billion dollar stimulas package so where is the bipartisanship?

[louie the laig break]

I agree with you, louie, but it seems to me that Bush was a bigger target for assasination because his approval rating was the lowest in history, and that never happened. He was hated worldwide. Not by me I should add. I think he genuinely tried his best in unprecidented times of terrorism (911), economic scams, natural disasters (New Orleans), etc.

As far as Obama being Muslim? Maybe, maybe not, but what is factual is that he's a partisan left wing liberal that has an agenda to pull this country as far left as fast as he can. This will undermine individual freedoms in lieu of government control. Every one of the Republicans voted down the 800 billion dollar stimulas package so where is the bipartisanship?

The stimulus of crackpot assassins most of the time, is notoriety.

President Obama represents the hope of the US, and by some measure the world.
In the twisted minds of assassins, he is a "trophy"..

Sad but true.

I'm an admitted right wing republican but he is now my President. So far he keeps getting very high marks so he's doing something right.
I'm hoping for the best..

[BobK]

I read that there is some real concern in Obama supposed to being a Muslim. IS this a real problem with his leadership?

All I can imagine is that if he tries to go against the CIA he will be assinated. and that my be a real threat in his mind.

Muslims practice their religion as a way of life, something that so called Christians do not understand as they feel holy if they go to church twice a year, not counting weddings and funerals.

Islam instructs its followers to either convert or rid the world of infidels and then ther will be peace. It is not explained the fact that Muslims are fighting amongst themselves at this very time. However the Jihardi movement is in motion, which is obviated by the terroist plots around the world.

Obama's Muslim beginnings as best as I can tell are not a concern. He has not practised that as a religion for over 20 years. According to the campaign issue of his attendance at Rev. Wright's anti white, anti America preachings for those last 20 years.


Are you sure you meant that the Jihadist movement [ terrorist tactics ] by radical Islamists is obviated? If anything the plots accelerate their agenda.

Your point of fighting amongst themselves IMO is based on differing views between radicals and the moderate element within the religion. The way to get to total domination of the world by the Muslims as outlined is not the question. That is a fact. Getting there sooner rather than later is the aim of the radical element. I don't see the need to rush since it's been 1400 years to get to 1 billion plus believers in the religion.

The far left liberal view of making gov. the daily living support system for people is not to much differant than the radical religious views of the jihadists.

Either way control of ones own life is lost.

There has to be a balance between what a person chooses and what is available to choose from. Really paramount is the freedom to make that choice.

[Auntie Freda]

I read that there is some real concern in Obama supposed to being a Muslim.
Gee, if BB read that Obama is "supposed to being a Muslim", it must be so. It was probably in the Watchtower.
Funny how this "Muslim" copped so much flack during the election campaign for his long association with the Rev. Wright.
Clearly, Wright was Wrong !
Frankly, I worry about ANYBODY aspiring to high office who is so gullible that they subscribe to ANY of this religious nonsense.
Can you imagine - one day there might be a JW up there ?!

...... if he tries to go against the CIA he will be assinated. Probably right.

.....the Jihardi movement is in motion, which is obviated by the terroist plots around the world.He obviously doesn't understand the meaning of the word "obviated".
But we make allowances ....

[Auntie Freda]

.... Bush was a bigger target for assasination BECAUSE his approval rating was the lowest in history ...
In a violent, gun-crazed society like the USA, I'm not convinced that a president's "approval rating" has much to do with his chances of survival.
I thought Kennedy was reasonably popular ?

As Louie said
" The stimulus of crackpot assassins most of the time, is notoriety."

[dawson]

Point well taken regarding "notoriety". But as far as USA being a guncrazed society? Not according to statistics compared to other countries but then we've been over this ground before here.

[Auntie Freda]

Gee I don't know that "we" have.
I thought 'Dawson' was something of a newcomer.

Surely Dawson is not some sneaky 'has been' so ashamed of previous behaviour that he needs to hide behind a 'nom de plume' and PRETEND he's a recent arrival ?

Gee, that would be devious and dishonest.
Not sure I'd wish to converse with anyone like THAT !

[BB707]

The "man in high office" or "tall Poppy" syndrome is the motive for the nutters to assinate, however history has proven that there are political reasons for the same game.

I have no idea if Obama will deliver to the American Citizen, he is making popular decisions now, but with he economic situation, he is going to be faced with making many unpopular ones. Greed is rampant in the world, and the world suffers the concequence.

I am happy with 'Obviate'- "Anticipate and prevent ( as a situation) isn't that what we are trying to do with the Jihaidis movement fred? But you use your vast and extensive wordisms, if it makes you feel wanted.

Try and leave the JWs out of at least one of your mutterings fred, you look so silly with this paranoia dribbling down your chin.

[Joyous]

1. How I wish all citizens of the USA would remember that President Obama is also Caucasian. His mother was a white woman. He was raised by loving, white grandparents.
2. I am extremely happy for all people of color who lived through discrimination that they now have something they never expected. A man with African blood in his veins elected to the office of the presidency of the USA.
3. In Michigan, many county and state jobs are held by people of varied racial background. Also, the Big Three = General Motors, Ford and Chrysler employ a great number of Black persons.
4. Racism is proof of ignorance.
5. Now, if we can have a Native American president, we will actually have accomplished something good.
6. When a woman is elected President of the USA. I will attend the inauguration.

Check out Senate bill 2433. If you are a citizen of the USA.

[dawson]

Gee I don't know that "we" have.
I thought 'Dawson' was something of a newcomer.

I've been here 7 1/2 months and all discussion comment history is a mouse click away. "We" was a collective Overfifties "we". When I did a little investigation into who KarenFord was, I clicked on quite a few past comments. To be specific, I think your conversation about guns was with louis or bobk or both. And I have no reason to "PRETEND" about my arrival date to this site as you suggested. It's listed in this very box upper right corner. I felt a bit like a newcomer a few weeks or so ago because I hadn't participated much here but I've made up for lost time recently. It's all comparative anyway.

[dawson]

Check out Senate bill 2433. If you are a citizen of the USA.
The bill is about ending global poverty but at what cost to the taxpayers? Apparently another 210 billion before 2015 which is the goal year. I'm concerned that we have our own people losing their nest eggs and their jobs at an alarming rate so how can we manage other countries as well?

The bill also defines it's goal as “the eradication of poverty by redistribution of wealth and land,” cancellation of “the debts of developing countries,” and a fair distribution of Earth’s resources.” Let me think. Socialism comes to mind.

Obama questions what he calls the “idolatry of the free market,” seeks “economic justice”, and champions ridding the world of aids and genocide, but the Global Poverty Act is a wad of gum far bigger than we want to chew, and it’ll keep getting bigger. Sending taxpayer dollars to third world countries only treats the symptoms of poverty and not the causes.

[BB707]

Sending taxpayer dollars to third world countries only treats the symptoms of poverty and not the causes.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and interesting comment. The figure sent to bribe and intice those in high places in Iraq, how many dollars? Don't seem to know but it amounted to 40 tons of American banknotes.

It has proven to be that this extravagance, and one could imagine vast corruption, has done little to fix the problem it was aimed at in the country.

Just like an empty credit card, poverty stricken countries 'owing' the US billions of dollars is not going to help Obama. YOU can't by food with debt.

[dawson]

Forget who owes us. China owns us. We have no business spending money with this "stimulus package", we should be cutting spending. We just keep printing off money which is causing the US dollar to devalue at an alarming rate. If this stimulus package doesn't work then we're leaving an unfathomable mess for our grandchildren. And I don't think it will work.

[Auntie Freda]

And I don't think it will work.
Who knows ?
A Yank named Abe Lincoln said something like
"The probability that we might fail ought not deter us from the defence of a cause we believe to be just".

But if someone is openly OPPOSED to
“ the eradication of poverty ",
" a fair distribution of the Earth’s resources ",
" economic justice " and
" ridding the world of aids and genocide ",
well there's probably not a lot to be said.

Having such goals is apparently a negative and amounts to socialism. Gee how terrible.
If opposing those objectives is part of 'anti-socialism', I know which way I'll jump thank you.

In the grand scheme of things, is 210 billion over SIX YEARS such a big deal ?
How much will Americans spend on their pets in that time ?
Does the bill say that this money will be despatched in cash and handed out willy-nilly as occurred in Iraq ?
Or might much of it be provided in farm equipment, medical goods, technology and the like - the production of which will provide much-needed jobs within the USA ?

If a bunch of war criminals like Rumsfeldt, Wolfowitz, Perle and Co were to suggest spending ten times that amount killing Iranians,
I have a feeling those on America's political right would be applauding with glee.

The life of a starving Somalian or Ugandan is, to me, as important as the life of any American but hey, don't extend help for that reason,
help raise them out of poverty and they become CUSTOMERS for your industry - hence more American jobs and an inflow of foreign dollars.

And please, do not insult anyone's intelligence by parroting myths about America's generous history in foreign aid.
Your magic mouse will reveal that as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product, it is way down towards the bottom of the list in the developed world.
AND it very frequently comes with political strings attached or is targetted to places like Israel which is hardly in dire straits.

[supergran]

hear, hear...Fred.

[BB707]

hear, hear...Fred.

Which also means...Don't have a clue what you are saying, but If it is the clone master saying it, Hear hear!!!!!

I really shouldn't do this, I don't want to make her famous like I did fred.

[dawson]

AF, the problem is that 210 billion dollars later we'll still have poverty, aids, and genocide in the world because of the red tape within the countries receiving the alms. Often, the money never reaches the intended people. I'll ignore all the slamming of the USA that you did.

By the way, Dissolute Dan was banned and immediately returned here as MinerFred, LOL. I think you're his buddy, fred, lol

[Auntie Freda]

AF, the problem is that 210 billion dollars later we'll still have poverty, aids, and genocide.....
I see. So the preferred option is to do nothing.
Often, the money never reaches the intended people. I'm sure it is not beyond the capacity of the Grand Ole USA to prevent that.
Factor into the 210 billion some accountability and controls over distribution.
Somehow, other nations - who contribute far, FAR higher percentages of their GDP in aid than the USA - manage to overcome this problem.

By the way, Dissolute Dan was banned and immediately returned here as MinerFred, LOL. I think you're his buddy, fred, lol
You may ASSUME that Dan was banned and returned as MinerFred (and you could well be right) but unless you are an Administrator here, you cannot state it as fact. Or should not.
I have long since learned that there are few 'buddies' in these forums.
People change.
I agree with some of what Dan says. Occasionally I agree with YOU.


In any case, "Dawson" - isn't that a bit of 'pots and kettles' ?
.

[dawson]

Minerfred has been banned. Even Admin figured out that he is the same as DissoluteDan/Tarka/Bill/Will

And guess what...he has just returned as Phil Anthrope! haha Yes, I'm 100% positive.

As far as charity to other countries goes, it doesn't matter what country is doing the giving, nor what rules of distribution have accompanied the alms; once it's in the hands of the receiver's government it is out of the controls of the giver.

[Auntie Freda]

That sounds like a cop-out excuse for not giving, Dawson.

Do you have a teensy weensy tad of evidence that well-managed aid is thus diverted.
If so, GOD the Yanks must be dumb !
Sure, we all know it HAS happened in the past. SO steps are taken to prevent it.
You don't send cash to a dodgy government. You send a tractor - and have people on the ground to ensure it goes to a farmer who is then trained to use it.
If a dam is needed, you provide the equipment and supervise the construction.

You set up clinics, and with your 210 billion, ensure that trained staff have the tools to assist the ill.

You send plane loads of food - but ensure that distribution is controlled.

Too complicated ? No wonder America is going down the gurgler.
This is not brain surgery.

[dawson]

Here are a few reasons for the problems that Americans have learned but it has never stopped us from giving:

1. Government-to-government aid has been ineffective because it has been merely a way to support strategically important leaders. A good example of this is the former dictator of Zaire, Mobuto Sese Seko, who lost support from the West after the Cold War had ended. Mobuto, at the time of his death, had a sufficient personal fortune (particularly in Swiss banks) to pay off the entire external debt of Zaire.

2. Help based on direct donation creates dependency and corruption, and has an adverse effect on local production. As a result, a shift has taken place towards aid based on activation of local assets and stimulation measures such as microcredit.

3. Aid has also been ineffective in young recipient countries in which ethnic tensions are strong: sometimes ethnic conflicts have prevented efficient delivery of aid.

4. In some cases, western surpluses that resulted from faulty agriculture- or other policies have been dumped in poor countries, thus wiping out local production and increasing dependency.

5. In several instances, loans that were considered irretrievable (for instance because funds had been embezzled by a dictator who has already died or disappeared), have been written off by donor countries, who subsequently booked this as development aid.

6. A common criticism in recent years is that rich countries have put so many conditions on aid that it has reduced aid effectiveness. In the example of tied aid, donor countries often require the recipient to purchase goods and services from the donor, even if these are cheaper elsewhere. Other conditions include opening up the country to foreign investment, even if it might not be ready to do so.
......................................
Subsidies should be given directly to families to be spent of children's education and health
education vouchers for school uniforms & textbooks
teaching selected illiterate adults to read and write
deworming drugs and vitamin/nutritional supplements
vaccination and HIV/AIDS prevention programs
indoor sprays against malaria, anti-mosquito bed netting
suitable fertilizers
clean water supplies

[Auntie Freda]

A lovely cut and paste, Dawson, from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_aid

Any chance of some original 'Dawson' thought ?
OR, at the very least,
that you acknowledge your source when you've plagiarized from elsewhere.


It would be nice too, when you copy/paste from elsewhere and try to pass the material off as your own

that you do not chop out the bits you don't like !!!!

[dawson]

Who are you, the Grand Poohbah of Overfifties Accountability? LOL, I was actually expecting this post from you since I've seen you go at others, you're getting way too predictable here!

And who cares where it came from? This isn't exactly being published in the LOLville Cyber Almanac, haha. You give this place way too much credibility!

[Snowden]

Keith just doesn't like America, Dawson. He's never been here, knows few if any Americans first hand, but in his estimation, we are the greatest evil doers on Earth. I feel he has personal reasons for this, so it's really not important to me what he thinks. This is the greatest nation on Earth; not the best in many ways, perhaps, but when other nations are oppressed in any way, we help and we are more generous than most other nations. Probably this is simply because we have had so much. But if America does become Socialistic or goes under in any way, the entire world would suffer.

I read that somewhere and found it mirrored my own feelings. I think Mark Steyn wrote it, but I cannot find it to put here. My own word means little, but whether or not it's believed, time will tell -- if things go as they seem to be going right now.

[Auntie Freda]

Oh I see.
So, you two both think it's perfectly OK to pinch whole paragraphs from some other source and post them in here as if they were your own original material.
AND, when doing so, to excise (look it up, "Dawson") any bits which might cast doubt on your position.

I can now well understand how some are sucked in by the "BIBLE".
It reflects your own modus operandi.

[Auntie Freda]

................. (duplicated post)

[dawson]

Actually, the excising makes it more of my own thought apart from the original source because it differs in opinion...thus my own.

Plus, once you cut and paste something you have to go back and find where it came from in order to cut and paste (again) the link. And, being over-fifty, I claim "memory" for the problem lol.

Don't you ever get tired of the nit-picky stuff? Just try to have fun, pal.

And I've never mentioned the Bible here. Time to check your memory too :)

And if you think "excise" is a difficult word then you have a bigger problem lol

[candee]

................. (duplicated post)

I wonder?

I see you are at the "you know what" again Auntie. Shall I send the gum drops once again?

[Auntie Freda]

If you think it's kosher to steal the words of others without acknowledging them - AND to chop bits out to change their meaning, that's fine, Dawson.
We'll agree to differ.
Some of us would simply not do that.


Now, CANDEE, welcome back to the land of the living !
If you realized my total lack of computer skills, you would harbour no doubt that I could easily duplicate a post.

[Auntie Freda]

And I've never mentioned the Bible here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawson
I've never mentioned the Bible.

OH really !?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawson
....I go strictly by what's in the Bible.
I suspect you are a strong-willed Jehovah's Witness.
.....they don't rely at all on the leading of the Holy Spirit to reveal the true meaning of the scriptures.


Sure - it's in another thread. But I figure it's the same "Dawson".

[candee]

Now, CANDEE, welcome back to the land of the living !
If you realized my total lack of computer skills, you would harbour no doubt that I could easily duplicate a post.

Thank you for the lovely welcome. I do not consider being dead but the opposite.

Computer skills are not that difficult. Need help just ask any time.

I certainly hope we are not gathering up a discussion on religious organizations. I should go back and read the complete thread. Speaking about someone religious' order will get you no where fast.

[dawson]

A lovely cut and paste, Dawson, from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_aid

Any chance...that you acknowledge your source when you've plagiarized from elsewhere?
It would be nice too, when you copy/paste from elsewhere that you do not chop out the bits you don't like !!!!
Actually, I got it from Sesame Street, brought to you by the letters "F" and "U" :)

LOL

[dawson]

WHAT? Obama is trying to take over control of our 2010 Census. It's just suppose to be about counting how many people we have here but Obama wants to make it a guesstimation by statisticians so that the amount of representatives would change and the lines would eventually be redrawn for the electoral voting (the electoral vote is what actually determines the winner of the Presidential election in our country, oh yeah, and somewhat of the popular vote lol).

And why would Obama do this? To give him a better chance of winning the election in 2012?

NO president in our history has EVER requested this. Obama is trying to control everything swiftly and decisively!

By the way, the final spending bill just passed in the House with absolutely NO republican votes. So much for bipartisanship.

[Auntie Freda]

.... Obama is trying to take over control of our 2010 Census.
It's just suppose to be about counting how many people we have here .....
SO, no previous U.S. census posed any questions about housing, race, health, education, religion, transport etc etc etc ???

Any modern census in any civilized country will seek data far beyond merely the number of people.
These demographics assist governments to plan for infrastructure, budgeting, disaster management, defence, where and when to locate schools, hospitals, roads, dams, power ..... and so on.

AND - quite correctly - electoral boundaries.
To strive for approximately equal representation.
Otherwise, you'll have 10,000 people with a representative in one area whilst 100,000 get only one rep in another part of the country.

This has been so for many decades.
But no, it's all an Obama plot.

Dawson IS beginning to sound a lot like Anna.

[dawson]

Must you bore me, everytime we try to discuss a point, with that childish accusation (last line) and cause me to use precious time and space to address it? Aren't you as tired of that as I am? And to think her name is on the lips of people here still, after she's been gone a half a year. What a grip she has on everyone's minds and emotions. What power control. If she knew, she'd have the last laugh. And this pot-stirring comment of yours will only prolong more comments on the subject. Aren't you tired of wading through all that to get to things of more substance which there is precious little of here anymore?

And you missed the point of controversy over the census. I never said the census wasn't used to plan for "budgeting, disaster management, defence (spelled "defense" in our country), where and when to locate schools, hospitals, roads, dams, power ..... and so on".

The point is that, instead of the head of the Census Bureau reporting to the Department of Commerce, it now will go to the white house for partisan control and for political gains.

Now look how much space "anna obsession" took up in this comment versus intelligent conversation. Is that what you want to spawn?

[Auntie Freda]

No. You're right. The Anna comment was not justified.
Despite "Phil's" obsession, I do NOT think you are Anna.


But you do seem to have changed your tune a bit about the meaty stuff.
(1) " .... our 2010 Census. It's JUST SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT COUNTING HOW MANY PEOPLE WE HAVE .......

NOW,
you seem to agree that census questions relating to "housing, race, health, education, religion, transport etc"
might be valid.
How ELSE could the data be used effectively for
" budgeting, disaster management, defence, where and when to locate schools, hospitals, roads, dams, power ..... and so on".

Do you not agree that such questions have ALWAYS been part of the census ?
Only your second post expressed concern about where that census data is to be directed.
And that I have not yet confirmed or clarified.
A URL would be handy.

[dawson]

Despite "Phil's" obsession, I do NOT think you are Anna.

But you do seem to have changed your tune a bit, " .... our 2010 Census. It's JUST SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT COUNTING HOW MANY PEOPLE WE HAVE .......
NOW, you seem to agree that census questions relating to "housing, race, health, education, religion, transport etc"
might be valid. How ELSE could the data be used effectively for "budgeting, disaster management, defence, where and when to locate schools, hospitals, roads, dams, power ..... and so on".

Do you not agree that such questions have ALWAYS been part of the census ?

Only your second post expressed concern about where that census data is to be directed.
And that I have not yet confirmed or clarified.
A URL would be handy.

I still say the census is suppose to be just about counting how many people we have...SO, we can use that data to answer the questions you have posted. I see what you are saying though. I'm not always detailed or organized enough with my thoughts.

This census issue is not that big right now but just wait, it's going to be HUGE and you'll see it all over the news. The Republicans have said they will take legal action if Obama redirects controls from the Commerce Dept to the White House.

As you requested:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/09/gop-sounds-alarm-obama-decision-census-white-house/

"Utah's congressional delegation is calling President Obama's decision to move the U.S. census into the White House a purely partisan move and potentially dangerous to congressional redistricting around the country.

The U.S. census -- a counting of the U.S. population -- is conducted every 10 years by the Commerce Department. Its results determine the decennial redrawing of congressional districts

...the census has tremendous political significance. Political parties are always eager to have a hand in redrawing districts so that they can maximize their own party's clout while minimizing the opposition, often through gerrymandering.

The census also determines the composition of the Electoral College, which chooses the president. If one party were to control the census, it could arguably try to perpetuate its hold on political power.

The results of the census are also enormously important in another way -- the allocation of federal funds. Theoretically, a political party could disproportionately steer federal funding to areas dominated by its own members through a skewing of census numbers."

[Auntie Freda]

In my ever-humble opinion, A MAJOR problem for most well-meaning Americans is the degree to which the truth is concealed from them.

It IS possible in this age of information technology to ascertain the facts.
But one must first REALIZE that one is being manipulated - and then be prepared to actively seek out the truth.


One tiny example -
How many Yanks have seen the documentary " TAXI TO THE DARKSIDE"
or even HEARD of it ?
It is a thorough, authoritative investigation of American abductions, torture and murder of totally innocent victims abroad.
It interviews many of the American military torturers and killers - and some of those who directed them.
It was produced by Alex Gibney and won an Academy Award for best doco in 2008 - and bucketloads of other awards around the world.
It has been shown on free-to-air, prime-time television in most countries.
It is available on DVD at the local Video Stores and has been shown in theatres worldwide.

In the USA - NOT so available, it seems.



http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/78183/taxi_to_the_dark_side/
.... the Discovery Channel.... bought the TV rights to the film.
Discovery told Gibney they would not be airing Taxi to the Dark Side

The Discovery Channel is owned by John Malone, the conservative mogul who owns Liberty Media, one of the largest media corporations on the planet.
Malone is famous for his complex business deals that involve spinning off media properties with stock offerings that net him millions.
He also has just gotten approval to swap his extensive stock holdings in News Corp., Rupert Murdoch's empire, for control of Murdoch's DirecTV satellite television system.

When Discovery told Gibney they would not be airing Taxi to the Dark Side, Malone and Murdoch were awaiting approval for the DirecTV deal from the Bush administration's Federal Communications Commission. "

[BobK]

In my ever-humble opinion, A MAJOR problem for most well-meaning Americans is the degree to which the truth is concealed from them.

It IS possible in this age of information technology to ascertain the facts.
But one must first REALIZE that one is being manipulated - and then be prepared to actively seek out the truth.


One tiny example -
How many Yanks have seen the documentary " TAXI TO THE DARKSIDE"
or even HEARD of it ?
It is a thorough, authoritative investigation of American abductions, torture and murder of totally innocent victims abroad.
It interviews many of the American military torturers and killers - and some of those who directed them.
It was produced by Alex Gibney and won an Academy Award for best doco in 2008 - and bucketloads of other awards around the world.
It has been shown on free-to-air, prime-time television in most countries.
It is available on DVD at the local Video Stores and has been shown in theatres worldwide.

In the USA - NOT so available, it seems.



http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/78183/taxi_to_the_dark_side/
.... the Discovery Channel.... bought the TV rights to the film.
Discovery told Gibney they would not be airing Taxi to the Dark Side

The Discovery Channel is owned by John Malone, the conservative mogul who owns Liberty Media, one of the largest media corporations on the planet.
Malone is famous for his complex business deals that involve spinning off media properties with stock offerings that net him millions.
He also has just gotten approval to swap his extensive stock holdings in News Corp., Rupert Murdoch's empire, for control of Murdoch's DirecTV satellite television system.

When Discovery told Gibney they would not be airing Taxi to the Dark Side, Malone and Murdoch were awaiting approval for the DirecTV deal from the Bush administration's Federal Communications Commission. "

The thread is Changes.

The referance of Taxi to the Dark Side is a documentary about an event that happened in 2002.

History is a good read, we can learn from it or not.

The present administration promises change & so far that change has been to declare a change in international diplomacy style. Along with that a change in prisoner treatment.

It remains to be seen if change in those areas happens.

Meanwhile Taxi to the Dark Side is well researched, just not at the top of must see films. The average person just wants to be diverted from their everyday concerns.

It might seem callous of me to admit I am not worried about what happened to an Afgan taxi driver in 2002 but since the liklhood it isn't going to happen to me. I'll just chalk this up to I live in the now and I'm living life as I always have, really well. And I'm glad I was born in America and not in a mud hut in Afganistan.

[dawson]

The thread is Changes. The reference of Taxi to the Dark Side is a documentary about an event that happened in 2002. History is a good read, we can learn from it or not.
I didn't see the movie but lets take torturing prisoners for example. The US military says they abide by the rules set forth by the Geneva Convention but some prisoners say otherwise. Well, there are prisoners at normal prisons who think just being there, with free meals, health care, exercise facilities, etc. is torture. Of course the prisoners are going to say they were tortured if it means lawsuits.

It's easy to make comments if you've never served or lost a loved one in combat. What are they supposed to do? Take away their TV and force them to eat cereal if they don't cough up the intelligence information? We have become a joke to hostile territories ...they have nothing to fear because our hands are tied. Being in the military these days has become risky business...they're stuck between a rock and a hard spot. (Sitting ducks.) If it were your daughter, son or spouse, you'd want all the intelligence you could get. It saves lives and prevents mass destruction no matter what side your on. Let the military do their job.

[Auntie Freda]

The average person (YANK !) just wants to be diverted from their everyday concerns.

It might seem callous of me to admit (!!!!) I am not worried about what happened to an Afgan taxi driver in 2002 but since the liklhood it isn't going to happen to me.
I'll just chalk this up to I live in the now and I'm living life as I always have, really well.
And I'm glad I was born in America and not in a mud hut in Afganistan.
And that is precisely WHY Americans are despised aroung the globe - and why horrors like 911 occur.
Because apathetic, arrogant, comfortable Americans like yourself DO NOT care what filth your leadership inflicts on all those innocents in mud huts or jungle villages or anywhere else.

[Auntie Freda]

I didn't see the movie but lets take torturing prisoners for example ..........

It saves lives and prevents mass destruction no matter what side your on. Let the military do their job.
My response to Bob obviously applies to you too. Except that you CHOOSE to remain ignorant.
I'm not talking about depriving a prisoner (who has had a fair trial) of his TV.
I'm talking about snatching innocent Afghans or Iraqis or even Europeans from the street or their homes and whisking them of to hell-holes in Egypt, to Bagram, to Abu Ghraib, to Guantanamo - and a dozen other places we don't hear so much about.
And keeping the buggers there for years.
Solitary confinement, sensory deprivation, "water-boarding", sexual harrassment, kickings, beatings, religious persecution....... on and on an on -for years.
The ultimate torture is murder. Many have died.
But you'd rather not know.
Just Google 'Taxi to the Dark Side' and follow a few links. But I know you wont.

Do you know that less than 10% of captured Afghans were actually taken in the field ?
The rest were handed over to the Yanks by locals FOR MONEY (or for any number of other even less noble reasons like family feuds or property disputes).
Of course you don't know - because you don't WANT to know.
In which case, don't complain if "terrorists" use whatever means they can to retaliate.
The Bush government did not even PRETEND that they were abiding by the Geneva Convention. They said it didn't apply.
Do not expect U.S. soldiers captured in future conflicts to be treated humanely.
YOU have set the standard.

[BobK]

And that is precisely WHY Americans are despised aroung the globe - and why horrors like 911 occur.
Because apathetic, arrogant, comfortable Americans like yourself DO NOT care what filth your leadership inflicts on all those innocents in mud huts or jungle villages or anywhere else.

Quite a response that didn't include recognition of the effort to help all those innocents in mud huts or jungle villages. But that is what tunnel vision and dedicated hate of something will do.

The use of words like apathetic & arrogant are probably meant to antagonize. I don't care what you write because I realize that no matter what you write nothing is going to change in my life.

There is no value in pointing out that many other countries assist in trying to stop the progress of religious fanatism. That is the real reason behind the horrors of 9/11. What you perceive means nothing in the grand scope of things.

What strikes me as really funny is the constant aggression you use in posts. I for one am glad you are not the leader of any country with any kind of military power. Given the constant rhetoric I could envision you as writing speeches for Hugo Chavez.

[dawson]

It's easy to make comments if you've never served or lost a loved one in combat. What are they supposed to do? Take away their TV and force them to eat cereal if they don't cough up the intelligence information? We have become a joke to hostile territories ...they have nothing to fear because our hands are tied. Being in the military these days has become risky business...they're stuck between a rock and a hard spot. (Sitting ducks.) If it were your daughter, son or spouse, you'd want all the intelligence info you could get. It saves lives and prevents mass destruction no matter what side your on. Let the military do their job.
Sorry Auntie Freda, but as soon as I realized that you deviously edited out the entire mid-section of my
comment you quoted, to give it a whole new meaning, I stopped reading right there. Never even read your response.

You completely left out the importance, the need, and the purpose of gathering
intelligence information which is what gave my comment credibility.

Nice try. I'm glad I don't have to resort to "parlor tricks" in order to win an argument.

Shameful.

[Auntie Freda]

Never even read your response.
Now why does that not surprise me ?
Clearly, you choose not to read of the evils your country perpetrates abroad either.
I guess it is comfortable being an ostrich.


It is hardly devious to choose only the bits of your post to which I was responding.
The little row of dots ....... clearly indicates that some subject matter has been excised.
Anyone who so chose could obviously read your entire spiel by merely glancing up.
There would be no point in trying to distort your pearls of wisdom.

[Auntie Freda]

..... didn't include recognition of the effort to help all those innocents in mud huts or jungle villages.
Yes, I have no doubt that they will be eternally grateful for the missiles and the napalm which slaughtered their family members, destroyed their homes and maimed and mutilated their children .............

[dawson]

Sorry Auntie Freda, but as soon as I realized that you deviously edited out the entire mid-section of my
comment you quoted, to give it a whole new meaning, I stopped reading right there. Never even read your response.

You completely left out the importance, the need, and the purpose of gathering
intelligence information which is what gave my comment credibility.

Nice try. I'm glad I don't have to resort to "parlor tricks" in order to win an argument.

Shameful.
since you edited out my comment again, giving it new meaning, I decided to repost it. I'm not opposed to editing parts to which you are responding to UNLESS it gives new meaning to what the I originally posted.

It's time to put the bottle down. I can tell when you've had too much.

[Auntie Freda]

It's time to put the bottle down. I can tell when you've had too much.
Yep, that type of scurrilous slur sure beats having to THINK or do a bit of research to respond to the real issues that have been raised.
Far easier just to sling mud.
A bit like Yank bombings really. Just as cowardly as well.

[dawson]

Look in the mirror.

[Auntie Freda]

It's time to put the bottle down, Dawson. I can tell when you've had too much.

[qloopy80]

As a matter of interest, Fred, "dawson" enjoys the occasional glass of Pinot Noir.

[Auntie Freda]

Oh my GOD, Qloopy ! What a revelation.
It explains much.

May one ask how you came by this valuable information ?