From old board today.

[Admin2]

By Norman on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 10:31 am:
Quentin those were statistical facts, what research was done to make sense of the statistics. There were no statistics on the amount of blacks living in Charleston. The numbers might seem high as presented but if only 100 blacks lived there then the numbers don’t reflect the population.

Lets use item #6 in your post for example sake. Suppose the black population was 100 with 55 children living below the poverty line. All other percentages are possible even with 100 as the representative number of blacks. Now in comparison let suppose the white population was 5000. @19% that would mean there would be 950 white children below the poverty line.

While statistics can be dramatic there is a lot more information needed to complete any picture. No wonder the world looks at America the way they do. With partial information, [statistics only] depending on the education level; any assumption could be made. Causal factors should accompany presentations.

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By Quentin on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 12:29 pm:
Norman, in fact I do have the statistics you said you/we needed. I figured you would want them so here they are: In the year 2000 .... when the last Census was taken .... there were 3,225 black households in Charleston. Watch yourself, Norman, as you tread in these waters because I have some experience in clearing the murky water left by those who wish to do harm. As you may know, Census statistics are commonly used in proving points of law particularly in civil rights cases. Regarding causal factors, I can only present the facts and the reader in Discussions or a fair and impartial jury, as the case may be, must look into their own hearts to render a proper judgment upon the facts. And, I have looked into your heart long ago and I must say at this time you would never be on one of my juries for I feel you would not be able to render a fair and impartial verdict in issues such as aforesaid presented. I have seen over the years quite a few "Normans" on my jury panels but very few, if any, on my jury. While all the facts we have at hand was not presented above as you were more than happy to point out I can, nevertheless, say this: All the facts from the 2000 Census necessary, including the above, will be used to force "the city fathers" to re-district the wards here whether freely and voluntarily or by court order so that every person's vote will thereafter be equal, whether a white or black vote. Have a nice day.

[norman]

Now that we know there are 3,225 black households how many actual black residents are there? How many white households & of course how many white residents. Actually there are so many more questions that should be answered relative to the numbers it would take weeks of research for you to bring a clear concise picture of what is happening in Charleston.

There are way to many other factors which you seem to want the reader to guess using their own backround to form an opinion. Depending on exposer those could be all over the map. In order for any kind of guess that might be remotely close to right; I think people would have to live where the statistics are generated.


I like to use examples to try to make my point clear. Percentages can be used several different ways. Using a dollar as the basis. Which is better a 20% discount or a 10% & 10% discount. As you can see they both equal 20 but there is a difference in the end result. You really presented factual numbers not facts relating to the circumstances causing the numbers. No doubt in my mind that numbers have done wonders in the hands of politicians. School busing comes to mind as a use that was based on numbers. Fair representation if used right can help. The qualifying words "used right". Since the black population according to the numbers you gave are better educated it is possible to cause grief by re-districting. I stand by wanting to know why instead of relying only on raw numbers.

The references to murky,my heart,jury duty & all the rest are OK. You know what you want to imply. Even if I could guess & guess right it wouldn't make any difference to me. Why would it? What you or I say is only something for another to read. We aren't solving the problems of the world here.

[Admin2]

By Christmas on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 07:29 am:
When I listen to his hymns I hear a soul in search of blessed assurance.
He lived near me, about a couple of miles when he was a teenager (late teens).
I admired his strength and belief in himself as well as his love for his mother. He needed her support and love. Without her and a sense of direction he lost his way.
What a waste. It makes me sad when I hear his hymns and I hope to hear him again one day singing in joy.
Perhaps 'then' I will be able to carry a tune and we can make beautiful music together to the Lord.
The Props assist the House
Until the House is built
And then the Props withdraw
And adequate, erect.
The House support itself
And cease to recollect
The Auger and the Carpenter
Just such a retrospect
Hath the perfected Life-
A past of Plank and Nail
And slowness--then the Scaffolds drop
Affirming it a soul.
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By Norman on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 12:18 pm:
Music a topic not often brought up. I’m about as non selective as any human could be when it comes to music. The reference to classical had me thinking about what I’ve listened to over the years. The composers of great classical music did a terrific job of transporting the mind. They weren’t restricted to pop charts or MTV for ratings & sales.
Chopin could go from mellow in Ballade #1 op 3 in G minor to light & lively in his Grande Valse Brilliante op 18. For pure imagination his raindrop prelude in D-flat major goes from gentle to thunderous. A demonstrated ability to get the listener to mentally picture rain through sound.
Tchaikovsky's music is to bold or brash for my taste. Strauss is borderline. His waltzes were used in a lot of movies I’ve seen; so for that I can give him a thumbs up.
My favorite for listening to while reading or just for relaxing is Mozart. Not all of his stuff though. Fur Elise is probably his best known. For relaxing his piano concert #27 in B flat is good. Even when he wrote piano concert #21 in c major which is allegro it isn’t as aggressive as others.
Somehow while classical is a good escape from some of todays music I’d miss the variety we have. I can’t imagine myself jogging to classical music. Techno, Hip-Hop, Hard Rock, Meringue, Salsa, all have the best beat for getting lost in the rhythm & forgetting about the boredom of a treadmill. Lifting free weights to country music, The Platters or Johnny Mathis takes my mind off of the pain of making old muscles work. Thankfully my wife has recovered thousands of songs & makes CD’s designed especially for working out. Not listening to the same old songs or one singer on a CD does make a big difference.

[norman]

Why did I bother to respond to Quentin & ask questions ? Why Not he posted the statistics in a topic open for discussion. The topic was about racism and what he posted was limited. Posting using strictly numbers the posting appeared to me to be biased negatively against the black population of Charleston or racist.

How could I conclude that there was a negative racist bias?

Lets begin with Item # 2. The households. Is there work available? or has the husband gone off looking for work.? Not unusual if we remember the big depression & what it took to find work.

Item #3 bears out the possibility of #2 being a reality.

No Item #4 so we’ll skip to item #5. Logically if a male wage earner isn’t there the potential of a 20 K a year family income isn’t possible. This goes to my point of percentages being used to reflect whatever and not necessarily portraying the whole picture.

Item #6. Raw numbers like 3225 households again blurs reality. Using whole numbers doesn’t tell the reader the makeup of the household. Remember 40% of black women are single parent mothers but of how many children? To be poverty level it takes [4] people in a household earning less than $18,400.00 a year. Raw numbers don’t fill in the gap for answers.

Item 7 & 8 should be combined. Consider that there are less single white mother households so the potential for dual wages earners would boost the annual family income. The cost of housing is related to ability to pay. Nothing complicated in that.

Item #9. Is the main reason I questioned why only numbers and no information on job opportunity or any of the other social factors that would be relevant to knowing why the disparity in living standard. I’ve never lived in W. Va. I certainly don’t want to guess about why life is like it is there. All I do know is that a retired white lawyer posted information limited to numbers that portrays the black citizens of Charleston as having fatherless homes, not earning a wage.

Considering the topic to me that sounded racist & If we as a society are ever going to be united then we have to try to understand the why of others peoples problems.

[Joyous]

I posted this in another area, but it seems fitting to place it here as well. President Bush is speaking live from Dearborn, Michigan. That's about 15 miles from my town. He met with Iraqi -Americans for their view concerning the new government in Iraq. They're giving him a very warm reception.

[Admin2]

By Christmas on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 07:22 pm:
Keith, I worked for 20 years for city and state government. I know the system and the game.
I DON'T PLAY THE GAME so I beat my head against the wall. It did teach me a great lesson and I am thankful for all I learned in the school of hard knocks.

I was told by my supervisor I was too honest, too conscientious, too hard working and I documented TOO much. I was told to go back to my office and prop my feet up and relax ...just go with the flow. I left out too alturistic.

Well, I looked at my supervisor and said....I was taught what should do and be from the cradle.
I am what I am. Even if I decided to play the game I could never accomplish becoming a "game player". And as to documenting....I will never stop covering myself from the rear.

I hung in til I made my 20 years and I QUIT.
However, I learned the system and how the game is played. But, I never joined in and never will.


I made a difference because the people who counted came to me and told me. I then allowed God to handle it. He is, has and was in charge the entire time I just didn't realize it.

Here I am today, I YAM WHAT I YAM says Popeye the sailor man. Not mad, but glad and doing the best I can to meet each day with an opportunity to serve my master.

oooooOOOOOOPPPPPSSsssss.........Just call me SOAP BOX ANNIE.


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By Christmas on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 07:23 pm:
STAFF.......whrez the yorkies????????


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By Tori on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 07:31 pm:
The main reason you see dogs moving around in the back of pickup trucks is because the bed of the truck is cold enough to freeze the pads of their feet to the bed in winter, (like sticking your tongue to an ice cube tray and ripping the skin off) and hot enough to cause a third degree burn in the summer. Here in Arizona, guide dogs walking on pavement have to wear special boots to keep from burning the skin off their feet.

Years ago during a dog show here two couples asked me where they could walk to buy dog food. They said their dogs needed exercise and they thought the walk would do them good. I told them not to take their dogs as their feet could become severely injured.

One couple didn't listen and wound up carrying two 75 pound dogs for several blocks in 105 degree heat back to the motel.
They were forced to withdraw from competition because of the severe injuries to the dogs feet.

It's a crime here to leave an animal in a car unattended.

You'd think anyone with common sense would be able to figure out that if it's too hot for them it's too hot for a dog!


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[Admin2]

By Christmas on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 07:23 pm:
STAFF.......whrez the yorkies????????


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By Tori on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 07:31 pm:
The main reason you see dogs moving around in the back of pickup trucks is because the bed of the truck is cold enough to freeze the pads of their feet to the bed in winter, (like sticking your tongue to an ice cube tray and ripping the skin off) and hot enough to cause a third degree burn in the summer. Here in Arizona, guide dogs walking on pavement have to wear special boots to keep from burning the skin off their feet.

Years ago during a dog show here two couples asked me where they could walk to buy dog food. They said their dogs needed exercise and they thought the walk would do them good. I told them not to take their dogs as their feet could become severely injured.

One couple didn't listen and wound up carrying two 75 pound dogs for several blocks in 105 degree heat back to the motel.
They were forced to withdraw from competition because of the severe injuries to the dogs feet.

It's a crime here to leave an animal in a car unattended.

You'd think anyone with common sense would be able to figure out that if it's too hot for them it's too hot for a dog!

[Admin2]

By Snowden on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 04:32 pm:
Oldflo, how precious of you to bring joy into our midst once again! Your little Alison is a very lucky child. We have missed you here in this place.

One of the best things in this country, I think - and in yours - is the mixture of cultures and what we are able to enjoy together and learn from one another. The constant flow of people, the changing of the guard, in a way. Fascinating.

As to us getting back to religion - Keith did it! *G* (See me pointing my finger, Oldflo?) He's a tease, you know.

Do post more often, Margaret!


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By Christmas on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:03 pm:
Little Sir Echo how do you do
Hello, Hello, Hello

Little sir Echo will answer you,
Hello, Hello, Hello
hello, hello, hello

Oh, won't you come over and play (and play)
You are a dear little fellow
I know by your voice
But your are always so far away (away)


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By OneSG on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 08:54 pm:
The further away the better.

[Admin2]

By anonymous on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 04:46 am:
At Last
Elizabeth Akers Allen

At last, when all the summer shine
That warmed life's early hours is past,
Your loving fingers seek for mine
And hold them close—at last—at last!
Not oft the robin comes to build
Its nest upon the leafless bough
By autumn robbed, by winter chilled,—
But you, dear heart, you love me now.

Though there are shadows on my brow
And furrows on my cheek, in truth,—
The marks where Time's remorseless plough
Broke up the blooming sward of Youth,—
Though fled is every girlish grace
Might win or hold a lover's vow,
Despite my sad and faded face,
And darkened heart, you love me now!

I count no more my wasted tears;
They left no echo of their fall;
I mourn no more my lonesome years;
This blessed hour atones for all.
I fear not all that Time or Fate
May bring to burden heart or brow,—
Strong in the love that came so late,
Our souls shall keep it always now!

By A Poet on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 05:00 am:
May Flowers.
March winds are over April showers are past
My garden is planted flowers blooming at last
The scents of the lilacs fill the air very near
Irises are sprouting purple hues everywhere
I love weeding my garden and watching it grow
My garden petunias the colors of the rainbow
The rose moss so tiny its blooms all array
There is nothing as wonderful as a spring day
I watch from my window as butterflies flutter
All around my daisies the color of butter
The hummingbirds drinking nectar so sweet
Flowers of spring gods beautiful treat

[Admin2]

AMNINA LAWAL SET TO BE STONED ON 3RD JUNE
The Nigerian Supreme Court has upheld the death sentence for Amina
Lawal, condemned for the crime of adultery on August 19th 2002, to be
buried up to her neck and stoned to death. Her death was postponed so
that she could continue to nurse her baby. Execution is now set for
June 3rd.

If you haven't been following this case, you might like to know that
Amina's baby is regarded as the 'evidence' of her adultery. The father
denied everything when he realised the trouble he was in. To find out
more about sharia law, see
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,777972,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,777972,00.html

Amina's case is being handled by the Spanish branch of Amnesty
International, which is attempting to put together enough signatures to
make the Nigerian government rescind the death sentence.

[Admin2]

By ^;^ on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 05:17 am:
As you just confirmed, Quentin, it is a game.

Many times the defendants are the losers when taking the lawyer's advice. There are four attorney's in my family. One and maybe two are out for the big money and they got it.
The other two I am not so sure about since they don't live nearly as well. Not sure whether they don't know the game or are two honest for the game.

I learned from a doctor of both body and mind that the "good" people are in the minority.
Then again, it may just be how you define the word "good".


By Quentin on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 02:53 pm:
^;^, as they say: Everyting is relative.


By ^;^ on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 03:09 am:
NO, LOL, Quentin, I don't think we are kin, ^;^

[Admin2]

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 12:45 pm:
This subject is just barbaric. We should not even talk about it!! Certainly not joking about it!!

By mary jane on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 03:27 pm:
yes mam

By Snowden on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 02:17 pm:
Thanks for that address, you who are calling yourself "Adultery." Whoever you are, I hope this will help the young woman survive.

It's a horrible death, far from even instant. Since she was not allowed to testify on her own behalf, she had no one to come to her defense. It's doubtful the man who raped her would have been allowed to interfere, but they were friends (some friend he was!) the story goes, and is very sorry.

How about that.

But Anonymous, while you're right - it's no joking matter - we must talk about it. We can get a lot of signatures in 30 days. I doubt they will help. Someone needs to go in and get her, as Jessica Lynch was rescued. That is her only real hope, I think.


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[edith]

Sharia is truly frightening. This raises, in my mind, the question of tolerance and occasions when it should not be applied.

Our country's Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment, violation of civil rights, etc. We now have a law on the books that forbids genital mutilation, thanks to Pat Shroeder, former representative to US Congress. That horrible practice has been justified by it's practitioners as cultural and even religious.

This stoning certainly falls under cruel and unusual punishment. I suppose some will say that they are kind by allowing her to nurse the baby. I don't view this as kindness or justice.

We, in this country, need to think through tolerance of other's cultures and traditions. Some of them are violations of our rights as human beings and citizens. We can't let people move in here and continue outrages that violate rights given by our Constitution. We can't have sub-cultures where such violations flourish. In order to guard against this, we have to discuss it.

[Admin2]

By Sam on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 06:06 am:
This petition has been sent around since last spring on the internet. A continous petition might do some good as the president seems to try to not uphold the more strict religious laws. The same sect is dominant in Iraq and the same laws will be there if the Shia clergy rules, and, it is certainly on the road to that at this time.
(Quote) If Shias act in unison, they will rule Iraq. But they are fragmented. The Hawza is dominated by two groups, those around the Grand Ayatollah Sayyed Ali al-Sistani, a conservative, and those who follow Sadr, a more radical figure. There is also the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution of Iraq, led by Ayatollah Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim, which has been operating from Iran with a 15,000-strong army.

All the political parties vying for power in Iraq acknowledge the dominance of the Shia clergy

By Sam on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 06:09 am:
From my understanding and articles in newspapers, unless there has been a new ruling that I haven't read about since April 4, the date of execution is for January 2004 when the baby is weaned.

[Admin2]

By Sam on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 06:09 am:
From my understanding and articles in newspapers, unless there has been a new ruling that I haven't read about since April 4, the date of execution is for January 2004 when the baby is weaned.

By oldflo on Saturday, May 3, 2003 - 11:34 pm:
Thank you Sam this was the only information I had.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/
3 June 2003 is the date for the hearing of Amina Lawal's appeal against a sentence of stoning before the Sharia Court of Appeal of Katsina State, Nigeria and not a date of execution. More information.../action/aminalawal.shtml

[Admin2]

By Smile on Monday, May 5, 2003 - 05:09 am:
dixie, the tornados have created so much devisation in misouri, please God tell me you are o.k.

By Christmas on Tuesday, May 6, 2003 - 07:01 pm:
Once outside in the freezing cold there stood a snowman shivering in the cold.
He thought he'd like to come inside to warm and rest upon the floor.
He called to the North Wind; help me now I pray.
I'm completely frozen standing here all day.
So the North Wind howled and blew in the door.
Now there is nothing left but a puddle on the floor.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 02:13 am:
Where have you gone A Poet? You have been in here daily. Quite prolific in your poetry. Have you run out of poems?

By Christmas on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 - 10:41 am:
I love the rain with it's tear drop feet.
It calms the dust and cools the street.

The clatter of rain upon the roof
reminds me of the tramp of a horse's hoof
It gushes and rushes to struggle out
from the overflowing water spout.

Hear the tap tap tap on the window pane. It's the rain still saying come out and play. Sail your fleet
down the draining curb that mimics a river
in a rushing flood.

Far in the country and across the fields where the plain is stretching like a leopard's tawny and spotted hide the the brown parched grass cries out, "come dear rain" and do refresh this thirsty earth."

The sky is gathering clouds so gray so puffy they tell me solace is soon to come.

Oh, how we love the rain.

[Admin2]

Greetýngs from the grubby travellers! We have today been to Ephesus for a morning browse around the vast site, followed by lunch with some of our Explore group at a little cafe in Selkirk. Turkey is certainly being something of a culture shock after a wonderful week in Ýtaly. Lake Garda offered quaint little townships perched upon towering mountains by the pretty lake. Then four fascinatýng days in Venice where we had an extensive look around and had fun taking masses of photos of leaky buildings - surely this counts as a business trip for David! Ýt ýs truly a dýfferent lifestyle from ours in Turkey, so labour intensive and very basic agricultural methods. We are listening to the call to prayer even as Ý type..... We don't seem to relate to the non-Christian things as those from our cultural background, as in Ýtaly. Temperatures are around 25 and very sunny with hardly a drop of rain so far. Hotels are basic but OK and the company is cheery in our group of 16.

Hope all is well in your world and look forward to catching up soon after our return. All the best, David and Sandy

[Shar]

I pulled this back up because on page 1 it referred to Amina Lawal that was to be stoned to death for committing adultery, a case that sharpened the divide between Muslims and Christians in Africa's most-populous country. An Islamic appeals court Thursday overturned the conviction. This was on the front page of Yahoo News this morning.



Now, it appears that in this same time frame
LAGOS (AFP) - A Nigerian man has been sentenced to death by stoning for sodomy, officials said only moments after single mother Amina Lawal had her stoning sentence for adultery lifted by another Islamic court.


The conviction of 20-year-old Jibrin Babaji for sleeping with three boys was made on Tuesday by a Sharia court in the northern Bauchi State, state officials told AFP.

A spokesman for the court, Bala Ahmed, said Babaji had been sentenced after having confessed to sexually molesting the minors at different times over the past year, contrary to the Islamic law, or Sharia, in force in the state

News story URL's in next post

[edith]

I'm glad that poor woman was freed, but it is too bad it was on technical errors and not because it was wrong. As I recall reading, the woman was raped, but their laws require 4 men to observe the rape and testify about it -- how stupid is that! Who rapes in front of witnesses? She was also turned in by her father...what goes on in their minds? It would seem that daughters don't matter much.

Stoning a man for sodomy? I couldn't get the story to load. Were they minors? Were they old enough and willing?

I would so hate to live under Islam, especially as a woman.

[Shar]

Sorry Edith, usually I check the URL before I post it...try this one on Lawal

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030925/wl_afp/nigeria_islam_030925153328


The story on the Nigerian man sentenced to be stoned is
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030925/ts_afp/nigeria_islam_bauchi_030925135804

[edith]

Thanks, Shar :)