animal cloning

[kd]

Ok, saw on television where they are cloning animals for human consumption. For some reason this freaks me out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do ya'll think?

[Cherie]

Freaked out too KD ... Gosh cant they put their energy into curing some disease?
But ... then again they COULD clone George Clooney ... Hmmmmmm ... Dont think they would keep up with the demand!

[ynot]

This animal cloning issue as me pondering the future .

They say that the produce of these animals is fit for human consumption .
Maybe ...But what is to say that in 4 or 5 generations . When this stuff as embedded itself into our genealogy ,. Is it feasible for a father or mother to produce a child that is a clone of the parent . ie. a carbon copy .

Could it be , that in the future , we will only be producing children that are completely alike in every way ..

Is this in the wrong thread ...Maybe this belongs in stupid questions

Na they will only argue amongst themselves in there

[chirpy]

CLONING --scares the hell out of me ,just imagine ,half a dozen chirpies on the loose-- :eek: but more seriously i know technology has brought wonderful things but when it comes to messing with the building blocks of life i am afraid i dont trust scientists or goverments enough,as a species we have a tendency toward a arrogant belief in our ability to control the planet and its environment ,we are coming unstuck re the environment having not fully understood the effect of our actions on its delicate balance and still we continue messing about in very dodgy areas.---still ,if they do end up with a few chirpies causing havoc and mayhem that'l teach em--- eeek

[BobK]

This animal cloning issue as me pondering the future .

They say that the produce of these animals is fit for human consumption .
Maybe ...But what is to say that in 4 or 5 generations . When this stuff as embedded itself into our genealogy ,. Is it feasible for a father or mother to produce a child that is a clone of the parent . ie. a carbon copy .

Could it be , that in the future , we will only be producing children that are completely alike in every way ..

Is this in the wrong thread ...Maybe this belongs in stupid questions

Na they will only argue amongst themselves in there

ynot this recent article from Jan 17th. 2008 may help in looking at cloning from several angles. If you read it how about an opinion? Surely this one could be discussed & not argued :)

http://features.us.reuters.com/wellbeing/news/296955AA-C53D-11DC-AA40-57027491.html

[kd]

HAHA Cherie good point...............Sorry thinking about George.

[pooky56]

im all for cloning george!! and perhaps some brad pitts!! i agree with cherie , to what good is cloning!! spend more on cancer research to name but one............

[Uncle Fred]

Bugger George Clooney and Brad Pitt (they're Yanks anyway).
But just think - they COULD clone Uncle Fred !

More seriously though, the world's population is exploding.
Millions are starving even now and that is only going to become worse and worse.
If cloning can somehow improve meat production and that leads to less human suffering,
then surely the RELATIVELY small cost is justified ?

[kd]

HAHAHAHA Fred, they might be Yanks but lordy are they hot Yanks!
You may be right about feeding the millions that are suffering from starvation,but it just scares the heck out of me. Does it feel a little scary to you?

[chirpy]

uncle fred ,trouble is we dont know what the cost would be ,not immediately but in generations to come,having said that,the cloning of stem cells or other tissues could perhaps transform the the treatment of M.S.sufferers ,spinal cord injuries and burns treatment and a whole range of other medical problems --the ethical issues are a whole other debate,i have so many mixed feelings -fear ,mistrust ,and revulsion at the thought of animal or human cloning-but weigh these against the potential for medical advance and i am not sure--re cloning for feeding increasing world population --more inclined to work toward better family planning education worldwide and the funding this needs.

[BobK]

The hormones and antibiotics which we consume indirectly from the NON-cloned livestock IS scientifically harmful.

It's not like they create the meat & grow it in a test tube. They use an egg, remove the nucleus, insert nucleus from the cells from whatever animal they want to clone and then artificially inseminate the host animal to have a normal birth.

Basically it is nothing more than a natural birth and natural animal that is born. It just looks like the original donor animal. If the host animal is healthy there is nothing weird & nothing according to what has been established so far scientifically; that could hurt us from the process. Only thing I suspect is the cost to make this happen has to be more expensive.

When the artificial heart was invented people were skeptical.Where science goes with this is still unknown.

Personally for application purposes. I'd opt for more natural looking Dolly Parton types than the silicone mounds that look like stretched out plastic balloons.

[ynot]

BobK...... First off thank you for asking me for an opinion ..Generally I just spout my opinion without regard for if anybody wants it or not . Makes a nice change .

Now to the article : This is the same article , at least an edited replica , of one that I read in my own local paper .
The boffins regard cloned animal produce as safe to eat ..

Are these the same " Experts " that ok'd thoilidramide . Sorry if I've spelt that wrong .

Maybe cloning is safe ...Disregarding the animal righters objections .
But we wont really be sure for maybe 50 or 100 years . But then again , by then " they " will probably have come up with a solution ...or maybe it just wont matter that much ...If the world is full of identical people ..well who will care .

Or maybe we will all be dead of air pollution or lack of food and water . Maybe Iran will blow up the world , Maybe the USA will have a woman President

[eyes]

Its been done here in N.Z with sheep. Dolly became very famous! haha I can`t help thinking if this was to be an accepted thing with people, imagine this sort of technology in the hands of someone like,e.g Hitler? Would need too be strictly regulated and monitored,and I could see many problems arising.I don`t think we should tamper with nature to that degree.Very scary!

[BobK]

BobK...... First off thank you for asking me for an opinion ..Generally I just spout my opinion without regard for if anybody wants it or not . Makes a nice change .

Now to the article : This is the same article , at least an edited replica , of one that I read in my own local paper .
The boffins regard cloned animal produce as safe to eat ..

Are these the same " Experts " that ok'd thoilidramide . Sorry if I've spelt that wrong .

Maybe cloning is safe ...Disregarding the animal righters objections .
But we wont really be sure for maybe 50 or 100 years . But then again , by then " they " will probably have come up with a solution ...or maybe it just wont matter that much ...If the world is full of identical people ..well who will care .

Or maybe we will all be dead of air pollution or lack of food and water . Maybe Iran will blow up the world , Maybe the USA will have a woman President

Thanks for the input. The thing of it is we really don't know what any long term affect if any there will be.

But where would we be in all the advances in cures to illness if something new was never tried.

Then there is the realization that the main fossil fuel that heats homes, provides the basis for many life saving chemicals and just about all mankind has come to depend on is projected to run out in about 40 years.

What if before then space exploration uncovered a habitable planet? What if the cloning was developed to the point that earth's mankind could sent into space able to survive because of the developement of cloning?

I look at world leaders and how they age much faster than the average person. What is it they are privy to that causes that kind of change in them?

Or it could be much simpler. A way to develope replacement organs.

[anna7]

In 2005 an article stated that scientists were to make a 'Stuart Little' mouse with the brain of a human. I don't know what has transpired since then but it was to ignite a profound ethical dilemma. It said...

"In one of the most controversial scientific projects ever conceived, a group of university researchers in California's Silicon Valley is preparing to create a mouse whose brain will be composed entirely of human cells.Researchers at Stanford University have already succeeded in breeding mice with brains that are one per cent human cells. In the next stage they plan to use stem cells from aborted foetuses to create an animal whose brain cells are 100 per cent human. Prof Irving Weissman, who heads the university's Institute of Cancer/Stem Cell Biology, believes that the mice could produce a breakthrough in understanding how stem cells might lead to a cure for diseases such as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease.

Prof Henry Greely, the head of the committee, said: "If the mouse shows human-like behaviours, like improved memory or problem-solving, it's time to stop."He accepted that the project might seem "a little creepy", but insisted: "It's not going to get up and say 'Hi, I'm Mickey'. Our brains are far more complicated."

Prof Weissman said that there was no way of knowing whether the "human-mice" would develop any human characteristics until after they were born. In previous experiments, pigs with human blood have been developed at a clinic in Minnesota. Last year, the University of Nevada produced sheep whose livers were 80 per cent human and could one day be used for transplants.

At hearings in Washington last October, Prof Weissman argued strongly against a ban on "chimera mice". He believes that the mice would behave like any others, but said that he would monitor the experiment closely and destroy them at the slightest suggestion of human-like brain patterns.

Opponents of Prof Weissman's work accept that his mice are unlikely to show such obvious human traits, but voice concerns that the brain cells would begin to organise themselves in a way that was more human than mouse. There is growing unease over whether human stem cells could migrate to other parts of the animals, creating human sperm or eggs in their reproductive systems.

Should two such "chimera mice" mate, it could lead to the nightmarish scenario of a human embryo trapped in a mouse's womb. William Cheshire, a neurology professor from the Mayo Clinic in Florida and a Christian activist, has called for a ban on any research that destroys a human embryo to create a new organism.

"We must be careful not to violate the integrity of humanity or of animal life,'' he said. "Research projects that create human-animal chimeras risk disturbing fragile ecosystems, endanger health and affront species integrity.''

"Scientists are engaging in increasingly macabre experiments that threaten to mutate nature and the human condition

[BobK]

I looked up what the term "chimera mice" meant in order to understand the concern.

Really easy to understand when the analogy of a jigsaw puzzle is used. Using the same jigsaw pattern and two differant pictures the jigsaw could be put together having a totally differant outcome.

Anyone that has seen the sci fi picture "Planet of the Apes" and then realizes the potential of "chimera mice" can fully understand why scientists say.

"We must be careful not to violate the integrity of humanity or of animal life,'' he said. "Research projects that create human-animal chimeras risk disturbing fragile ecosystems, endanger health and affront species integrity.''

I think it's far more than just a moral issue.

[kd]

ANd then what do we do when that delicate balance is upset. Its a scary thing.

[Joyous]

We are supposed to work WITH nature, not against nature!

[ynot]

According to an article ,that I read last week . The human race already has a mutant element .
80% of the world's population has brown eyes and dark hair . The fair/ red haired , blue eyed minority are supposedly caused by a mutating gene , that originated in pre historic man . It is thought that it is possible that early man may have propagated with neanderthal man . Who are thought to have been of a fairer complexion and hair colour than modern man .
This led to a blending of genes .

Futher more , because of the harsh live styles of early man, and the toll of hunting wild and dangerous animals . The male of the species was in rather short supply . So when it came to choosing a partner , Because the fair haired female stood out so much from the majority of darker females , they were sought after . Thus the fairer populaion grew quite strongly .

[Uncle Fred]

According to an article that I read last week, the human race already has a mutant element .


Yep. They're called "Americans".

.

[anna7]

According to an article ,that I read last week . The human race already has a mutant element .
80% of the world's population has brown eyes and dark hair . The fair/ red haired , blue eyed minority are supposedly caused by a mutating gene , that originated in pre historic man . It is thought that it is possible that early man may have propagated with neanderthal man . Who are thought to have been of a fairer complexion and hair colour than modern man .
This led to a blending of genes .

Futher more , because of the harsh live styles of early man, and the toll of hunting wild and dangerous animals . The male of the species was in rather short supply . So when it came to choosing a partner , Because the fair haired female stood out so much from the majority of darker females , they were sought after . Thus the fairer populaion grew quite strongly .
...WELL, THEN GET BUSY, YNOT, THERE'S WORK TO BE DONE!!

[ynot]

Red haired , blue eyed ...thats me Any offers

[kd]

Oh just lovely, here I am just walking along through life and now Notty you tell me I am just a mutant? Like those little mutant ninga turtles? Oh well, red hair, green eyes here.

[sunnysideup]

Yep. They're called "Americans".

.


Boooorish and boring, UFred.

[ynot]

Kd have you read Jean M Auell's novel " The Clan Of The Cave Bears "
If you have , then you will remember how Ayla ( the heroine ) is raped by Broud . Creb was the resultant offspring .

[eyes]

I have read the whole series and have loved these books for years!They are so well written!

[Joyous]

I recall wanting to kill Broud. Brutish lout! It was a great series.

[kd]

Read that series yrs. ago Notty. But could not it be that the migration north is the reason skin became whiter and eyes lighter Notty?

[Joyous]

Makes sense to me, KD!

[ynot]

Kd ...Somehow I dont think that if you moved the population of Kenya ( for instance) to Alaska , and left them there for !00 millenia , that they would all turn into blond blue eyed white skinned people ...

[kd]

well notty if I wasn't so lazy I would research it. cause i know i read it somewhere. lol