How Would You Feel If...........

[nashan]

http://www.overfifties.com/pages/privacy.php

[anna7]

...your poem is excellent. It is well executed, very moving, spoken from your heart with wisdom and we can all relate on some level. I like works that make us question ourselves and hold us accountable.

...i especially like the line, "the truth they never knew"....very powerful.

...good job, nashan
.

[nashan]

http://www.overfifties.com/pages/privacy.php

[Uncle Fred]

Or some could merely cease to moan
bringing down their verdict
that truth is their's and their's alone
and others all imperfect.

[OneSG]

..........

[Uncle Fred]

Good God Almighty ! I thought you were DEAD.
In what cloistered corner of cyberworld have you been dispensing your pearls of wisdom ?

[OneSG]

..........

[nashan]

http://www.overfifties.com/pages/privacy.php

[sunnyside]

Perhaps "Masters of Bad Judgment" could be subbed for the word "sinners". ;)
But seriously, folks!

[nashan]

http://www.overfifties.com/pages/privacy.php

[anna7]

...i'm lost. Who is "Ish"? Do you and Onesg and UF know each other from another forum?
.

[chirpy]

not being the sharpest knife in the draw ,i am confused and bemused !! will someone explain to me the purpose or point of having more than one name --seems to me you could end up talking to yourself,particularly if the old memory is playing up,----please explain.

[anna7]

...there are lots of reasons...some good and some bad.

...some people have to change their name because they are no longer able to enter with their old name (not sure why but lots have that problem). Last year the site was having technical problems and NO one could enter without reregistering each time. I was there at that time and must have reregistered 10 times at that time...just to get in...but left those names in the dust when the site was restored.

...some have tried a new name just for fun or to make a joke and be funny with a comment or to play in a roll playing scenario. Those people always make it known who they really are and what their original name is. I see nothing wrong with that as long as they make it known in short order that they are just joking.

...some people make up another name as a disguise to be hurtful to others and try to hide who they really are. This is very inappropriate of course and they are usually found out to be fakes in time...often evildoers...often liars.

...i find the first necessary, the second is just good clean fun and well-meaning. The last, of course, should be banned.

[Uncle Fred]

...i'm lost. Who is "Ish"? ......I wouldn't be surprised if he was uncle fred.

Wash your mouth out with SOAP !
OneSG (one Straight Guy = Ish) and Nashan (a.k.a. Beecee etc etc etc) and Uncle Fred
do INDEED know each other from another site.

At one stage all three were actually quite friendly.
But things somehow deteriorated.
OneSG is a homophobe (hence the name) and they are both rabid JWs.
OneSG constantly posted intolerant, hateful unChristian muck about gays
AND
a veritable flood of weirdo JW stuff.
If anyone dared to disagree and post (calmly and politely) alternate views,
he would go into a rage and launch personal attacks.
The owner of the other site demonstrated enormous patience with both of them but eventually both were, quite rightly, banned.

Nashan (Beecee) treats OneSG (Ish) as some sort of guru and hangs on his every word.


As for the multiple names, I see no problems using a different User Name in DIFFERENT sites - sometimes one doesn't have a choice.
But using more than one name in the SAME site is just silly and is often an attempt to be deceptive or confrontational.

[nashan]

You have no right to use my personal name in this forum without my permission.

[kd]

Over the past year there was trouble getting into the site so it was necessary to use a different name at times. Some here continued to do so after the site was back up and running. To either decieve or to be provocative to the opposite sex, with suggestive names. Things have been well here on the site for some time now and there really is no need to use a different name. Its confusing to the new members when they join.

[Uncle Fred]

You have no right to use my personal name in this forum without my permission.
And nor would I do so.

Is your name Beecee Smith
or
Mary Beecee ?

Would I find you under Beecee in the phone book
or on your Birth Certificate ?

It is a cyberworld USER NAME, you goose !

[nashan]

I have tried to give my opinion as to why I have changed my name. A few months ago I stated I would not use any other name than nashan in this forum. It will take time for me to try to remove the posts by the other nics. I will do that to save confusion to the new members. I also will be removing other posts from this forum that may be a breech of the rules found at:

http://www.overfifties.com/pages/privacy.php

[nashan]

And I take the right to say I am NOT a goose either.

[Uncle Fred]

SO .............
we have established that "Beecee" is neither your fist name nor your last name ?
Is that correct ?

Ummmmmmmm ....... if so, I clearly have NOT divulged your name.

My name is Keith.
If someone calls me KeeCee, they have not posted my 'personal name'.

ANYWAY - who cares ?

[nashan]

"For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him shall have everlasting life."

[Uncle Fred]

S N O R E . . . . . . .

[nashan]

S N O R E . . . . . . .

I would like to know what is wrong with the Jehovah’s Witnesses in your eyes. You seem to think that there is some dishonor attached to the organization. For some inexplicable reason you believe that they are a religious organization best avoided which is certain testimony to the fact that they must be doing or saying something right. Think for yourself for once, O wise and intellectual sage of Australia, not what some red neck from the hills instructs you to do.

I am not a Jehovah‘s Witness. I have seen OneSG/ISH inform you, on more than one occasion, that he too does not attend any Jehovah’s Witnesses meetings. Just because your boss woman intends, for whatever reason, to brand people with her misguided view of what she believes people are, does not mean that it is a fact. Your insistence on informing the world of these lies shows how indoctrinated you are with attempting to slander Christians and Christianity.

Sleep well Freddie. (Snore on………) The work your boss woman sent you to do has been done as my name has been slandered. The men I know do what they desire to do not what they have been told by the owner of a dying forum with a death rattle. Others have left Overfifites forum because of you. I shall follow the trend. The process of removing my posts will take time but it will be done.


Edited out as anna7 request and a special thanks for the advise........xxxxxx(the exact spelling on my birth certificate)

[anna7]

....Nashan, please don't leave. Uncle Fred is only one person (a very small one at times, in fact) compared to the many here that respect you and your opinions. He stepped over the line of Forum etiquette more than once but that is HIS problem. In fact, he has stepped over that line with everyone here. He hates Americans, females, and Christians so strike three and we're it on his hit list...you, me, and many others here.

...you are a valuable part of this Forum so i suggest you use the "Ignore Button" for him just like sunnyside has done.

PS...don't delete your comments as they are all valuable

[chirpy]

oh dear!! nashan and freddie ,so much history going on--and on --and on ,when will you let it end,-freddie do you enjoy winding nashan up and nashan your comments are often so angry and personal i am sure it is doing your mind and blood pressure no good at all--:)-i only belong to ths forum ,i am wondering if they all have this sort of warfare going on---
anna7 and kd thanks for the explanation it makes sense now.

[sunnyside]

I would like to know what is wrong with the Jehovah’s Witnesses in your eyes. You seem to think that there is some dishonor attached to the organization. For some inexplicable reason you believe that they are a religious organization best avoided which is certain testimony to the fact that they must be doing or saying something right. Think for yourself for once, O wise and intellectual sage of Australia, not what some red neck from the hills instructs you to do.

I am not a Jehovah‘s Witness. I have seen OneSG/ISH inform you, on more than one occasion, that he too does not attend any Jehovah’s Witnesses meetings. Just because your boss woman intends, for whatever reason, to brand people with her misguided view of what she believes people are, does not mean that it is a fact. Your insistence on informing the world of these lies shows how indoctrinated you are with attempting to slander Christians and Christianity.

Sleep well Freddie. (Snore on………) The work your boss woman sent you to do has been done as my name has been slandered. The men I know do what they desire to do not what they have been told by the owner of a dying forum with a death rattle. Others have left Overfifites forum because of you. I shall follow the trend. The process of removing my posts will take time but it will be done.




DON'T sign off just because of those obnoxious lip-offs.
It won't disturb them in the least to see you go, so don't. They may even smile that they've bothered you enough to cause your departure.
You don't have to read them; they can be put on ignore, and if they continue, it may be possible to report them. Perhaps you should have reported the member's attempt to reveal your name, but not reveal it yourself. That's scarey!
It may be advisable to go back and delete some of your posts, too. They will be scavenged for quotes to be used out of context and for continued harangues.

FYI - mainline Christian community considers JW to be a cult.

[anna7]

...Nashan, that name is unusual and therefore easier to track perhaps so i would suggest you "Edit" and "Backspace" to delete that

...Sunnyside, you will now need to do the same thing because you posted it as a quote.

...yes, you're correct, sunnyside...I believe Christians are defined as; believers that Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of the one and only God who's purpose was to be like man so he could pay man's punishment for their sins on the cross so that they can be counted worthy to enter into eternal life...because God recognized that we needed a savior.

...some believe you have to work your way to heaven so that is why you see them going door to door on the bicycles (i admire their dedication) but "works" are a RESULT of faith and not a prerequisite. Christians believe in what the Bible says...that all you have to do is believe in John 3:16 (as paraphrased in my previous paragraph)

...Christians just believe in the original Bible and no add-ons like the book of moroni that the mormons added on...and the JW watchtower stuff.

...but that's just my belief. We have Buddhists and all sorts of religions represented here and i'm not trying to push this on anyone...im just defining Christianity.

[nashan]

...Nashan, that name is unusual and therefore easier to track perhaps so i would suggest you "Edit" and "Backspace" to delete that

...Sunnyside, you will now need to do the same thing because you posted it as a quote.

...yes, you're correct, sunnyside...I don't consider "jehovah's witness" to be Christian. I believe Christians are defined as; believers that Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of the one and only God who's purpose was to be like man so he could pay man's punishment for their sins on the cross so that they can be counted worthy to enter into eternal life...because God recognized that we needed a savior.

...JW's believe you have to work your way to heaven so that is why you see them going door to door on the bicycles (i admire their dedication) but "works" are a RESULT of faith and not a prerequisite. Christians believe in what the Bible says...that all you have to do is believe in John 3:16 (as paraphrased in my previous paragraph)

...Christians just believe in the original Bible and no add-ons like the book of moroni that the mormons added on...and the JW watchtower stuff.

...but that's just my belief. We have Buddhists and all sorts of religions represented here and i'm not trying to push this on anyone...im just defining Christianity.

Thank you anna7 and I did as you requested. I hope sunnyside will do the same.

Now, may I please have your attention for just a moment?

It is the mention of the Jehovah Witness religion that is now bothering me. I am not baptized in this religion and I will not speak against it either. This faith is the business of those who believe it. I am not here to see this religion misrepresented or any other. I have a strong belief in God, the creator and realize that there will not be a name of religion placed upon you when or where you spend eternity. I know that my eternal home is with the Lord where He has gone to prepare for me. He died to do that for everyone who will believe. If you do not believe then you do not receive. So......to each his own choice.

I could mention the name of my church but it would only be torn apart too. Just take note that there is only one true God; the creator of the universe. It is people who seem to be missrepresenting Him. Whatever I have said, or done in my life, will be for me and me only to answer to God. No one else can take that from me.

"I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me"
Philippians 4:13

He is my helper in my life.

[Uncle Fred]

ISH (OneSG): Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:25 am
" .......I have been trying to tell you for some time about the origins of false, PAGAN Christianity. .......I am not, and never have been, involved with the DISGUSTING PRACTICES of the mainline churches "

I couldn't care less if a person worships FROGS
but if YOU are what he calls a "mainline" Christian,
OneSG clearly believes that YOU are a
" PAGAN .... involved in DISGUSTING PRACTICES" !

Any "mainline" Christians here ?
(That means non-JWs)

[nashan]

ISH (OneSG): Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:25 am
" .......I have been trying to tell you for some time about the origins of false, PAGAN Christianity. .......I am not, and never have been, involved with the DISGUSTING PRACTICES of the mainline churches "

I couldn't care less if a person worships FROGS
but if YOU are what he calls a "mainline" Christian,
OneSG clearly believes that YOU are a
" PAGAN .... involved in DISGUSTING PRACTICES" !

Any "mainline" Christians here ?
(That means non-JWs)

I am assuming the preceeding post was meant for me. That quote from OneSG has clearly been edited. Have you taken out the bit where he also denies any involvement with Jehovah’s Witnesses? I know exactly how he must feel because my posts have been taken out of context many times too.

[Uncle Fred]

You are perfectly correct. It was edited. But only for the sake of brevity.
I do not believe that the meaning was altered in any way.

Here is the full "text"

ISH: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:25 am
" Blue I have been trying to tell you for some time about the origins of false, pagan, Christianity.
I agree with all the guff you are telling me of.
That may be why I am not, and never have been, involved with the disgusting practices of the mainline churches.
The things they do are more in line with what you promote.
I wonder that you, as you call yourself god, don’t do more to stop it all.
Are you waiting for your next time around the block before you step in? "

[sunnyside]

oOOOPS , didn't think about the name in the quote I included. The name has been deleted.
Thanks for the reminder.

[sunnyside]

ISH/UF
I'm not sure we all have the same definition for "mainline".

What is your definition for "pagan" christianity? I don't know any "pagan" Christians, nor do I know of any pagan christian churches.
I do know of pagan and cult churches who would like the world to believe they are "Christian" however.
That quote sounds like a spite-filled, anti-Christian, oxymoros statement. We aren't referring to Canterbury Tales, are we?

The last 2 sentences of that quote are odd and the meaning/question unclear.

[anna7]

...it doesn't matter to me who uses what name...it only matters what positive input one has to add to this Discussions Forum. I don't care if your name is mud as long as you're respectful, kind, and don't lack integrity.

[jasmine]

The work your boss woman sent you to do has been done as my name has been slandered. The men I know do what they desire to do not what they have been told by the owner of a dying forum with a death rattle. Others have left Overfifites forum because of you. I shall follow the trend. The process of removing my posts will take time but it will be done.

Such venom! I am beginning to see why another forum may have banned you. Do you always carry around such a large load of hatred for fellow humans?

[sunnyside]

...oops...BUSTED Uncle Fred...i'm more convinced now than ever that you are OneSG. How else could you, or why else would you post something now that OneSG posted from a year ago???

Believe me, he WOULD and WILL take the time to go back and dig up everything he can, to twist and fit as he chooses. I think he needs 2 full-time jobs.

You want to guess how I know?? LOLOL

It's all still here, if it wasn't deleted. I've found stuff that is years old, and growing a long, gray beard on this site!

[sunnyside]

The work your boss woman sent you to do has been done as my name has been slandered. The men I know do what they desire to do not what they have been told by the owner of a dying forum with a death rattle. Others have left Overfifites forum because of you. I shall follow the trend. The process of removing my posts will take time but it will be done.

Such venom! I am beginning to see why another forum may have banned you. Do you always carry around such a large load of hatred for fellow humans?

MELOOOOODRAMA
I don't see venom or hatred and certainly not generalizing "fellow humans." That's a bit melodramatic. Considering much of what she writes, that isn't so. I've seen some misstatements, but never mind. Another time, another day.

I do see the reaction of an upset person, tired of of being badgered. Also upset, apparently, that forms of her name have been posted in this somewhat public site. I certainly don't blame her for that, either.

I've scanned through many posts in these discussions. Even though I don't read all her posts in detail, I've found that HE will never let her write anything without some snotty comment - not discussion.

Frankly, you follow very well in his footsteps, something you'd be wise to avoid. Just a suggestion.

[nashan]

MELOOOOODRAMA
I don't see venom or hatred and certainly not generalizing "fellow humans." That's a bit melodramatic. Considering much of what she writes, that isn't so. I've seen some misstatements, but never mind. Another time, another day.

I do see the reaction of an upset person, tired of of being badgered. Also upset, apparently, that forms of her name have been posted in this somewhat public site. I certainly don't blame her for that, either.

I've scanned through many posts in these discussions. Even though I don't read all her posts in detail, I've found that HE will never let her write anything without some snotty comment - not discussion.

Frankly, you follow very well in his footsteps, something you'd be wise to avoid. Just a suggestion.


Anna7, I know for a fact that ISH/OneSG and Uncle Fred are not one and the same. There are others in this forum that know as well. OneSg has defended me often.

And thank you for coming to my defence sunnyside and anna7. I appreciate it.

[karenkay]

...JW's believe you have to work your way to heaven so that is why you see them going door to door on the bicycles (i admire their dedication) but "works" are a RESULT of faith and not a prerequisite. Christians believe in what the Bible says...that all you have to do is believe in John 3:16 (as paraphrased in my previous paragraph)

...Christians just believe in the original Bible and no add-ons like the book of moroni that the mormons added on...and the JW watchtower stuff.

...but that's just my belief. We have Buddhists and all sorts of religions represented here and i'm not trying to push this on anyone...im just defining Christianity.


sorry Anna JW's do not believe you have to work your way to Heaven as the majority are not going there...only 144,000, as stated in the Bible. The rest will be living on Paradise Earth, as the Bible says. The reason we go door to door is because that is what Jesus did, and we follow Jesus as a model. We are commissioned to do this ( as the Bible says)

And regarding the 'JW watchtower stuff'. Those magazines are just to explain things in the Bible, nothing to do with 'add ons'

[anna7]

...i stand corrected then...but, aren't JW's earning something by doing "good works"?...which i thought was eternal life. I agree that it's a RESULT of one's faith to want to do "good works" but is not a prerequisite for anything.

[karenkay]

We look forward to everlasting life on a Paradise Earth. But the reason we go door to door as the Bible says at Matthew 24:14>
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

We don't earn salvation by our preaching work. It is well put in one of our publications: . It states: “Jesus’ sacrifice has also opened to us the opportunity for eternal life .*.*. This is not a reward that we earn. No matter how much we do in Jehovah’s service, we can never build up such merit that God will owe us life. Eternal life is ‘the gift God gives .*.*. by Christ Jesus our Lord.


When Jesus died he opened the 'door' to Heaven. No-one before Jesus died had the prospect of going to Heaven. So all these ones will have the prospect of life on a Paradise Earth and to learn about God etc.
The Bible says"
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him MIGHT not be destroyed but have everlasting life" It does not say 'WILL' have everlasting life , it says 'MIGHT'
So all we can do is obey ALL of God's commands , and hope of life everlasting.

[anna7]

...the King James Version of the Bible and the New International Version and the New American Standard version all say "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life" John3:16

...none of them say "might" and so i believe i'm SURE of everlasting life...no need to hope for it

[OneSG]

..........

[anna7]

...i don't have any pagan idols in MY church so i don't know what you are talking about. And yes, i believe. And yes, i follow His teachings for the most part...obviously i sin...everyday...just like everyone else..but God knows my heart and so He forgives me.

[karenkay]

Anna believing is not enough...you must be doing the will of God
The Bible says the demons believe also.

Do you have any statues or images of Jesus in your place of worship, Anna
It says in the Bible you You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. *You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion. That is what Onesg was referring to (pagan idols)
If God wanted us to worship him through images, wouldn't Jesus have used them? When he prayed he never used any carved image or rosary-like aids to worship. He prayed directly to his Father.

[OneSG]

Deleted because of double posting

[OneSG]

..........

[Uncle Fred]

Ho hum. Here we go again.
Folks, JWs claim that ALL other denominations are "pagan", "disgusting" etc etc.

No point in citing YOUR Bible to them.
Long after their weird dogmas were formed, they produced their own bible version, The New World Transation, which (naturally) supports those previous fantasies.
The demonstrable errors in the NWT are legion.

They've changed their doctrines umpteen times over the years - each time a particular one is shown to be just plain silly.
And their track record of predicting the last days or "end time" is laughable.

How any rational, intelligent person could stick with it for any length of time is incredible.
Facts is, rational, intelligent people DON'T.
They move on.

And if they are REALLY bright they become agnostics !

[OneSG]

..........

[anna7]

Anna believing is not enough...you must be doing the will of God. Do you have any statues or images of Jesus in your place of worship?
..."doing the will of God" is a natural RESULT of believing

...as i already said, i do believe and i do the will of God for the most part but i sometimes fail just like we all do and you do too because no one is perfect and we all sin everyday. But God knows my heart and forgives me. Scroll up and you will see this verbatum.

...and as i already said, no, i don't have any pagan idols in my church, no statues. If you are referring to statues of Mary or Jesus then you must be talking about the Catholic Church. I am not a Catholic.

[OneSG]

..........

[louie the laig break]

Is it the Cat-liks that prey to statues?

Is it the Babdists that rent all the huff & puff movies (when deacon willy isn't looking)..


Bottom line here folks:
there is NO modern religion that truely reflects the will of God..(You *are* there...right??)

[Uncle Fred]

And I very DEFINITELY am not OneSG !!!!

[Uncle Fred]

[QUOTE=Uncle Fred]
Folks, JWs claim that ALL other denominations are "pagan", "disgusting" etc etc.
No point in citing your Bible to THEM !
.... they produced their own bible version, The New World Transation......
[QUOTE]
...... I cited The Encyclopedia Americana not any bible.
Obvious comprehension problems.


" I aint one but ....."
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - there's a fair chance that it's a duck !
One does not have to be a card-carrying member of the Communist Party to be a communist.

If one constantly quotes the NWT, the Watchtower or Awake, carries on about impaling on a stake, the 144,000, no Trinity, patriotism is a no-no ( we agree about THAT one), Jesus was not "God" .......... even CHESS is evil .........
in fact ALL the JW stuff,
it matters not whether one trots along to the local Kingdom Hall several times a week.
A rose by any other name ......

[karenkay]

Uncle Freddy, when we study with people we ask them if they would like to use their Bibles, and after a while they realize that their Bible and 'our' Bible are the same. The difference in The New World Translation is God's name was put back where it is suppose to be, as all other religions removed it, and is much easier to understand.

There has never been any changes in the Bible.....there have been changes over the years in the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Bible says that we will understand the Bible in a progressive manner. Even the prophets who wrote the Bible under inspiration did not understand the meaning of everything they wrote. The Bible shows there will be a great increase in knowledge of the truth during 'the time of the end' . Increased knowledge often requires adjustments in one's thinking, and Jehovah's Witnesses are willing humbly to make such adjustments.

The Bible does not agree with the modern view that there are many acceptable ways to worship God. It says there is 'one Lord, one faith'

But don't other religions follow the Bible?

Well do they teach and practice what it contains?
(1) From most of the Bible translations they have removed the name of God thousands of times
(2) The trinity doctrine, is borrowed from pagan sources, and was developed centuries after the writing of the Bible
(3) The belief in immortality of the soul is not taken from the Bible.
(4) Jesus preached to people about the Kingdom of God and sent out his disciples to do the same. The churches today seldom mention about the Kingdom and their members are not doing the work of preaching ' this good news of the Kingdom'
(5) Jesus said his true followers could be identified by their self-sacrificing love for one another. Is that true of religions today when the nations go to war?
(6) It says that Christ's disciples would be no part of the world, and it warns that whoever wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. The churches nowadays are deeply involved in the political affairs of the nations.

[sunnyside]

Does anyone feel like they're banging their head against a wall?? Spitting into the wind? Turning blue in the face? Stirring oil and water??

[Aeroman]

“The Bible says the demons believe also.”
lol , At least I know I’m not a demon. Since I don’t believe God exists. ((atheist, Theravada Buddhist) that “godless religion”)

(if I understand this right) The JWs don’t believe we’ll be tossed into hell forever.
As I understand it, us non believers will just not exist.

I can live with that.

[Aeroman]

And I very DEFINITELY am not OneSG !!!!

Don’t you wish sometimes you could just see peoples IP addresses. :)

No, I don't believe Uncle Lizard is IshOne.

[kd]

You got that right Aeroman. I am sure it would come as a big suprise how many names one person here has.

[anna7]

.....there have been changes over the years in the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
...oh, that explains it then...you all HAVE changed your teaching. I wondered because I read "Kingdom of the Cults" about 20 years ago that said JWs believe in earning their way to heaven by doing "good works" but when i posted that you said it was wrong. So I guess I was right until you all switched.

...Um, God is not the author of confusion. The Christian teachings in the King James version of the Bible as well as NIV, etc have never never changed because truth is truth. It's comforting to me to know that i don't have to be in constant limbo to find the truth. I already have it where it never changes.

[karenkay]

Anna does you Bible have God's name in it over 7000 times like the original Bible...if it doesn't you have a false Bible.


We never ever changed the words of the Bible, as I said Bible truths are progressive. As I said as we found out the truths of the Bible and understood more of it, we changed in accord with the Bible, and we always stated that we did so. Nothing was ever hidden. You say you have it where it never changes....and if you find that your beliefs are out of sync with the Bible, I guarantee that your church would not change their theology...they would go along with the church teachings, regardless of what the Bible says.

Do you know what a cult is? A cult is a religion that is said to be unorthdox or that emphasizes devotion according to prescribed ritual. Many cults follow a living human leader, and often their adherents live in groups apart from the rest of society. The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be God’s Word, and Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly adhere to the Bible. Their worship is a way of life, not a ritual devotion. They neither follow a human nor isolate themselves from the rest of society. They live and work in the midst of other people.

[kd]

The Bible says let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I am not a fanciful orator like some here but it seems to me that fighting over what religion someone is is just plain silly. Making unkind remarks about one anothers religion is certainly something Jesus would not do. How about we all accept each other for who and what we are and get on to debating something more relavant. But then again its just my thought.

[ynot]

kd ..how is anyone going to prove that Their god is bigger that your god if they dont fight over it .

[OneSG]

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[anna7]

KD...in the Discussions Forum it's not so much about accepting everybody and everything they say...it's about accountability...otherwise we have silence here. If everyone "accepts each other for who and what we are" and posts nothing but huggees, kissees, hearts n flowers everywhere then there's going to be nothing to discuss. This is a place of learning (with wit and laughter at times) and i have learned a lot here about other peoples thought processes, truths, facts, etc. Sometimes we say things without realizing we have no backup and someone will call us on it. It may require research before responding, or it may require one to rethink what they said or to think period. It may cause one to change their mind (rarely LOL). This is a great place to sharpen ones mind and to be accountable for what one says.

YNOT...we have atheists here as well as those of spiritual persuasions of every sort. It's about finding the truth. It's about expanding our knowledge base. Some people lose sight of Forum etiquette here but that's because emotions enter in and self-control is lost...but that's another learning process isn't it. I myself am still learning self-control, patience, and clarity of penning my thoughts. I enjoy learning and growing. It's not a childish game of "who's got a bigger god"...at least it isn't for me.

KarenKay...I only mentioned the word "cult" in the title of the book i read 20 years ago..."Kingdom of the Cults"...that was the name of it and i can't change that. I agree that it's a harsh word.

[ynot]

((((((((((((hug))))))))) XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hearts and flowers

Debate ....but you already stated that you rarely change your mind ...So what is the point of debate .
Surely we can just express what ever we believe without having to back it up with research . Don't matter if I'm wrong or not . I Am just relating my thoughts .
I have a fault ... I am always ,and I mean always right ..never wrong..
That is what gives me the courage to voice my opinion ...

But I'm always open to a different point of view . If you can convince me that you are right and I was wrong . I would change my opinion and follow your lead . But then I would be right again .
Does that make sense to you . I know what I mean anyway .

[Aeroman]

Ynot, your absolutely right. Once your convinced something is the truth than it is the truth.

Isn’t there someplace in the bible were there arguing about meats sacrificed to idols and one group is saying that its wrong and the other group is saying its ok to eat the meat.
Jesus comes along and in a sense tells them there both right.
In that it is a sin for the ones that think it is a sin.

[nashan]

Perhaps I made a mistake when I deleted my original posts in this thread. It was only after reading the rules of the forum that I did so. Even though I had not mentioned real names in those deleted posts they were directed to real people in hopes to get messages across to them. Apparently that was accomplished. I will say this now, it does not matter how many times you are hurt from false statements or lies, there will be people that will send them. You must learn from them and understand that some people will never change no matter how hard you try to ask them to. It is all about choices throughout our lives. Good choices or bad choices it is all up to each individual to make them. My personal pain from the last 6 months is NOTHING to the pain that Jesus, God's Son did for me. At this time I ask myself....What would Jesus do if He were dealing with the issues that face me? Such a difficult task for me is made simple through Him. It won't be easy to forgive those that hate me or lie about me but I must. So, you out there that hate me for what I wanted to bring out I forgive you. Can you forgive me? Jesus prayed one day: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." How true this statement is even in forums. There are people who just don't realize how painful it is to be hurt from what is stated.

By the way anna7, you made a statement in one of your posts that God is not the author of confusion. I have said that many times in forums and I hope those posters that are confused do not mistake me for you. Some think I have so many names here. I will stand on the name of Nashan for this forum. The other two may be found here if one would dig up older threads but they will never be used for posting again. (Except to delete out the contents.)

[nashan]

Parts of England and the UK were affected last night/today by an earthquake. Something unheard of in this part of the world. Have your scribes and Pharisees warned you of the signs in the gospels or do they speak from the pulpit of anything other than scriptural matters?
Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Listen hard to your sermons I am sure the separated learned ones will inform you of the way to the kingdom.
Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.


Wow OneSG! Tell us more about the details of the quake. I live in an area that is known for quakes. One of the worse quakes in American history occured in 1814 and made the Mississippi River flow backward.

[OneSG]

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[kd]

Thank you Anna for the clarification. I have to agree with Notty and Aeroman on this though. Debating religion is an attempt in futility.

[sunnyside]

[QUOTE=anna7]KD...in the Discussions Forum it's not so much about accepting everybody and everything they say...it's about accountability...otherwise we have silence here. If everyone "accepts each other for who and what we are" and posts nothing but huggees, kissees, hearts n flowers everywhere then there's going to be nothing to discuss. This is a place of learning (with wit and laughter at times) and i have learned a lot here about other peoples thought processes, truths, facts, etc. Sometimes we say things without realizing we have no backup and someone will call us on it. It may require research before responding, or it may require one to rethink what they said or to think period. It may cause one to change their mind (rarely LOL). This is a great place to sharpen ones mind and to be accountable for what one says.

While yours is a somewhat noble statement, it isn't 100% true of everyone.
In reading some of these posts, and almost every thread I've read, regarding "religion", in the last 2+weeks, it seems to me that some are here to vent, grind axes, belittle, and to make fun of others. That isn't debate or accountability, it's simple disrespect.

[sunnyside]

Debating religion is an attempt in futility.

You are right. It is an exercise in futility, and we all know it, or should know it.
The Bible advises avoidance of such argument, and the same thing has been said several times, in several ways, in several posts, on this site.

Yesterday, I posted 4 questions in this regard, and no one seemed to notice, but skipped right over them and continued with the so-called
debate. LOLOLOL:)

[sunnyside]

[QUOTE=nashan]Perhaps I made a mistake when I deleted my original posts in this thread. It was only after reading the rules of the forum that I did so.

Actually, I think it a good idea if everyone went back and deleted their posts. It would be much nicer reading. :)

[Aeroman]

Parts of England and the UK were affected last night/today by an earthquake. Something unheard of in this part of the world. Have your scribes and Pharisees warned you of the signs in the gospels or do they speak from the pulpit of anything other than scriptural matters?
Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Listen hard to your sermons I am sure the separated learned ones will inform you of the way to the kingdom.
Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Somehow I just don’t believe that one little earthquake signifies the second coming, or the end of life as we know it. Lol
Anything less than 5 isn’t that big of an earthquake. Sure it will shake things up a bit and make primitive men believe in god. But just toss a virgin into your nearest volcano and you’ll be fine.

Don’t get to shook up, you’ve had earthquakes before,
This map go back to 1990 and I’m sure there have been lots more earthquakes before that in England.
http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2008/eq_080227_nyae/neic_nyae_h.html

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Maps/region/Europe.php

[sunnyside]

I just watched a documentary about earthquake and tsunami waiting off the coast of California. It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN.

There's a 700 mile plate from Los Angeles into Canada, that moves a fraction of an inch each year.

When the one plate takes a great slip under the other, the quake will be so severe that the tsunami it creates will wipe 700 miles of coastline off the map, and go inland until it reaches hills, or mountains, high enough to stop it.

Don't think one or one hundred virgins will help.

Nature ain't playin' !

Sobering thought.

[anna7]

I have to agree with Notty and Aeroman on this though. Debating religion is an attempt in futility.
KD: FYI..."Notty" and Aeroman are both atheists so it stands to reason that debating religion is futile for them.

I prefer discussing religion with like-minded Christians but we do have a diversity present here that i don't like to ignore.


OneSG: I have already addressed questions about whether my church has pagan idols in it TWICE...scroll back to post #44 and #50 if you must. I'm a protestant and have been a member in a Baptist Church, a Presbyterian Church, and a Methodist Church because i have moved around all over the country. I find the denomination is not all that important to God....just so we love and worship Him, fellowship with other believers, study His Word, and do our best to do His will. All churches are different. God knows we all get it wrong sometimes but thankfully He forgives as long as the basics are right on...and the basic is simple...John3:16 (and the word "might" in your Bible is incorrect...we can all be assured, not just hopeful).

[kd]

Yes Anna I know Notty and Aeroman are atheists, it seems to me like that is their personal choice. But thank you for informing me. But that doesn't make them any less in God's eyes. I don't have the right to judge anyone. I keep me very busy keeping my own self in line,lol.

[anna7]

...who said they are less in God's eyes? That's God's call. You were agreeing with them that debating religion is futile and i was telling you that they are atheist so of course debating religion is fultile for them. Try to be careful not to add things to what i say or twist my comments.

[kd]

I do not add or twist things. In fact I hardly ever comment here.
{QUOTE BY SUNNY}The Bible advises avoidance of such argument, and the same thing has been said several times, in several ways, in several posts, on this site.
I agree with you on that Sunny.

[anna7]

((((((((((((hug))))))))) XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hearts and flowers
I have a fault ... I am always ,and I mean always right ..never wrong..
That is what gives me the courage to voice my opinion ...

But I'm always open to a different point of view . If you can convince me that you are right and I was wrong . I would change my opinion and follow your lead . But then I would be right again .
Does that make sense to you . I know what I mean anyway .
...somehow, you have ended up right...LOL...and your making my head spin with this run-around full-circle logic
....you're such a goof haha

[ynot]

Kd and Sunflower ( anna) . just wrote a 3 or 400 word reply to you both and suddenly realised that I was Preaching .
Hhaahah what a joke , who am I to tell you or anyone else how to live their lives .

[kd]

my point exactly notty

[Uncle Fred]

.......who am I to tell you or anyone else how to live their lives
Why not, Ynot ?
Clearly, many of our good friends here are WASTING those lives pursuing religious fantasies which should have died out centuries ago.
If we wiser, more discerning sages can help just a few to free themselves from the mental bondage of sin and guilt and superstitious nonsense .........
Is that not a noble cause ?

Religion has only survived for three reasons -
Some strange innate need within the human animal to explain his world,
Gurus, priests, parsons, popes and assorted charlatans are afforded respect, even awe, and often luxury - by the gullible - and they thrive on it,
Those gullible proselytes convince others and even brainwash their own children.
And so it goes on.

But there IS hope.
With the onward march of education and science, fewer and fewer are falling for it.
There will always be a remnant but in a few generations their influence will be negligible and they will be considered figures of fun.
As they should.

GURU Uncle Fred has spoke !
So mote it be.

[sunnyside]

I agree for once!! Your post IS mote.

[OneSG]

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[anna7]

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[OneSG]

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[anna7]

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[OneSG]

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[sunnyside]

LOLOLOLOL Whose truth and whose facts???

[BobK]

When it comes to religion or not having a belief, I subscribe to the idea that by the age of 50 people have been exposed to and have settled on what works for them. Choices have been made that suit each individual. The area that gets sticky is rather than comparing differances or explaining no faith the "I'm Right" factor kicks in. By age 50 is it really important who is right? Isn't how life is lived the real issue?

By now the greater concern for most should be how many more summers do we have left and how can we enjoy what's left? We read and applaud the thoughts by those that recall the simpler things in life.

Yet our own lives are complicated by trying to convince complete strangers that what we think about religion is best for them. That concept just doesn't work does it?

[jasmine]

No, it doesn't. And yet, some folks can't seem to understand that what we have each chosen is what works for us. They have a desire to prove themselves more right (or is it righteous?). I think they know they will not change anyone's mind on the religious beliefs, so one has to wonder why they continue to preach their particular dogma.

I hope I have many many more summers to enjoy in my own way - and I don't consider my way any better, or any worse, than the next person's.

[karenkay]

I think they know they will not change anyone's mind on the religious beliefs, so one has to wonder why they continue to preach their particular dogma.




We have changed many minds, from every walk of religion, from priests to nuns etc. We also have every race imaginable in our organization. And you know what we will keep talking to people as that is what God commissions us to do. Through the many years, we have been put in prison, concentration camps ( for not taking up arms and murdering, as the Bible says we must love our neighbours and must not murder) , beaten etc because we preach the Good News. But nothing has stopped us, as we listen to the command of God not man.

[jasmine]

I guess there will always be those who think their dogma is the only true dogma - but guess what - its not. Dogma is dogma - those who wish to live by the doctrine of a particular cult are certainly welcome to do so. In my opinion, they are not listening to the voice of God - they are listening to the doctrines set down by their religious leaders.

[karenkay]

We have no religious leaders....we follow God and the Bible.....and I gave you the meaning of a cult....which no way are we.

[OneSG]

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[jasmine]

CULT: Theological usage: Oxford English Dictionary defined "cult" as:
"worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings"
"a particular form or system of religious worship; especially in reference to its external rites and ceremonies"
devotion or homage to a particular person or thing."

Under that definition JW is definitely a "cult"

Leo Pfeffer said "...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religion; and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;
but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult.". A humorous quotation, but one that is pretty close to reality

Perhaps I should have called it a "sect" since I neither fear nor hate it - just think is it as dogmatic as any other Bible-based religion.

Of course they have "leaders" beginning with its originator, Charles Taze Russell who emphasized the end times and started predicting when the world would end. Russell claimed that the Bible could be only understood according to his interpretations. (sort of like oneSG), then came Rutherford, and Knorr, Franz and Henschel. Franz was the one who decided the Bible needed to reinterpreted in order to more closely follow what the JW founders believed.

So deny it all you want - If you are a JW you are following the beiiefs of the JW founders who were the leaders of their day - and set out the dogma and doctrines.

[anna7]

I guess there will always be those who think their dogma is the only true dogma - but guess what - its not. Dogma is dogma.
...a well known bumper sticker here in America (and maybe worldwide?) says, "My Karma Ran Over Your Dogma"...haha

.

[sunnyside]

...a well known bumper sticker here in America (and maybe worldwide?) says, "My Karma Ran Over Your Dogma"...haha

.

Nno, nnoo, not my Dogma!!