Go Right To The Top

Don't ask me - go right to the top and ask HIM to prove it.heheh....a little humour here, since no one is writing here.

Now here's a topic! I'm one of the more non-religious types, sort of believing, but mostly being practical about the reality of how life works, how rewards are received, how all the praying in the world won't change a stroke victim's chances, prayer chains and all, and how the Bible was written for the followers less literate so the stories had to be embelished a bit to catch the attention. But you know, what I hate most is the religious fanatics that feel they have to convert everyone to their way of thinking. What I hate next is that each sect seems to believe their sect is the one God chose. Sure...

To Anonymous--I agree with you, except that when you get to the top, you have to confer with HER. She's the only one who REALLY knows what's what...haha

Bones--I also am relatively non-religious. I know a lot of people, including Native Americans, orthodox Jews, staunch Catholics, good Baptists, Methodists, etc., and all sorts in between, who are very spiritual. Apparently their faith is very satisfying to them, so I can't really find anything wrong with that and I am happy for them that they have found what they need. But as you say, it is when they feel they have to convert ME that I turn off completely and get very surly... (Not all of them by any means. Some denominations--and certainly NAs--are particularly against proselytizing.)

I heard a sermon the other week at church by an ex-biker who now is part of the 'God Squad'. They ride Harley Davidson bikes and befriend other 'hard core' bikers. His sermon was about the foolishness of the Bible. Noah building an Arc in the desert.. Crazy! Moses parting the Red sea..! The walls of Jericho falling down to the sounds of trumpets while his people marched around them for 7 days.. and the ultimate, Christ dieing on a cross to save the whole of mankind. Utter foolishness...

I was wondering what his point was as yes it can sound foolish, especially to non-christians or people who have never read the Bible or the great scholars of the world, then he quoted a verse saying that the wisdom of man will trip him up, and that God uses the foolish things (or simple things) to do his will so that it is obvious he has done them.

1 Corinthians 1:27 "Instead, God has deilberately chosen to use ideas the world considers foolish and of little worth in order to shame those people considered by the world as wise and great."

To me this is offers great comfort as I don't regard myself as 'Wise and great' in the worlds' eyes' and this means he can use me.

Something to think about...

I don't enough 'faith' not to belive that the is a God. How much evadence do people want. The Chief Justice in the UK said 'There is enough evandace to prove..yes prove that Jesus to life again.. Forget the God bit, did Jesus rise from the Dead? ..my question is ....prove that he didnt...good luck and let me know how you go!you must realise many have tried before you. The problem is Man kind Want to believe they will not have to face God one day..sorry but we all will.

I sure don't have a problem with that. Maybe then there will be proof, one way or the other. As for now, God nor Jesus is depositing to my checkbook. I am not scared of death when the truth will come out, but unfortunately, I can't let the rest of the world know my findings. That's the reality.

Hello Bones. Thanks for responding.. I get a glimps of where you are coming from. But surely "truth will out"? I try to look at facts.
Is there good and evil (Heaven an Hell)?
Did we just arrive from an explosion?
Where does our Spirit go (We are not just Flesh)?
Did Jesus rise from the Dead?
As you say the Truth will come out..but we must decide now and. what a thought..but what if you are wrong and Hell is really Hell?
and Above all what have you got to lose?
Would you be good enough to tell me where I am wrong? Take care..

Well folks, my feelings are.. I would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints.. RJ

Woops, I meant RoJo

So would I on this Earth..But is the Bible true..or is it not? Have you ever read Revelations? Read about Hell (life with out good)
Can you imagine life with out any goodness at all? That terifies me. No I am not a Whimp, People do say I don't seem to be the Christian type..but the FACTS are there..This is very serious. I love to laugh but I am important..and so are you. Am I wrong?

If there is a Hell, I doubt I'd be going there. I haven't done anything bad enough to sentence me to Hell, but if we have to decide now, I decided a long time ago which path I'd go down, and not because of being told I was a sinner, or God's watching, or any of those things. So, basically, I'm not too worried. As for the questions raised, can anyone answer those questions with any logic or any definity? Nope. So the believers will continue to believe and the non-believers will continue not to.

It's hard for me to imagine, that a non-religious person, who leads a good life, kind, and all the rest of thoes things, would end up in hell, if there is one.. RJ

God doesn,t look at sin as one is bigger, or worse than another. there is only one unforgivable sin and that is not to accept Jesus as your personal savior. In other words, not believe or accept that Jesus did live and Jesus did die for our sins. (not die for only the people who were decent and kind and loving,) but for all mankind. Thank heavens for that otherwise there would be no hope for anyone. whether there is a God or not...ask a mother who has just delivered her first baby. And if she doesn,t believe her little miracle wasn,t from God then I would be surprised.we like to make the rules on going to heaven(If there is one???) It,s very simple open the Good Book. Speaking for myself I know there is a God and I know He is there for everyone when they want to find Him.Colin, you asked if anyone can answer your questions. Off course He can. answer very simple, open the Bible and you will find the answers. God doesn,t need me to defend Him, He only needs me to believe in Him....and I do

Well cat, all those things are nice--Talk about feel good things--- you know what's coming....... Faith?... That's what you are talking about, right?... For me? Here is one that makes me wonder? God? He or she... I think if there is a God, I would like to be a she.. All the rest are just stories told by hairy men.. RJ

Bones..Thanks for that I do have a lot of respect for what you say, as a lot of people will not admit what you have.. But where you and I part..is I AM concerned about it.
Having watched close loved ones die, (no doubt you have) and seeing the Body, and in one case well.. just an empty shell of nothing . where did they go? I need to know. They were far too valuable to be a NOTHING?
Big bang theory..not for me. I can not comprehend a car being produced that way Let alone the Whole of creation. Reincarnation..? where do all the new people come from? don't go for that?
A lot I dont know..Why does this God I Worship allow a Child every 5 seconds die because the lack of food? and so on.
Oh, I have got to say Charles Manson, may go to Heaven..The "Orange Grove Well groomed TV Pastors" looking for money (not for me man) but they may not! go to Heavan! I AM concerned for my Eternity..which is for ever and ever and ever..thats is for ever....ever...ever.and EVER.a long time..

It seems to me when a child dies, or a mother dies, or a father dies.etc, etc, and when there is a war and everyones dies, we like to blame it on God. We have our own free will, and when we use it outside God,s boundaries we have nothing but heartache. And do not Christians children die and ministers sons and daughters go astray??? of course they do. Shall we blame God again. First off, to die is to live, if you believe God,s word. Our world is nothing compared to the world we are going to, again if you believe what is written in the Bible. How can that be so bad? We refer to God as He and if you want to say she, what does it matter? God is actually Spirit. It,s really just so simple. Once you truly believe, you truly are free. And yes rojo, Faith is where it,s at.

Okay Colin.. Everything you said made sence to me, and I feel..you know? ...Just don't know.. Too many questions for me... To be loving and kind is all I care about. All the rest is conjecture.. Love.. RJ

Faith.. That's your thing. Don't preach cat.. You have your God.. Don't worry about the rest of us..RJ Cat? don't beat me up..please? ....

Rojo, don't preach to Cat for preaching.... as I
am preaching to you.

People that can't handle the preaching are
usually convicted.

You entered this discussion so have enough
guts to listen to what others have to say
instead of telling them to keep it to
themselves!

If an almighty God exists, then he is not just
God for the Christians (as you say ' you have
your God') , he would be God over everyone,
including you and I.

Maybe we should spend our time trying to
work out what we will say to the creator (if he
exists) rather than labeling caring people as
annoying 'Preachers'.


I still luv ya Rojo.

was going to respond to rojo, but couldn,t have said better than /frank. thanks :)

Wars have been fought over religion and wars are still being fought, but let's not start one here. We all have good points, even those of us who are the Doubting Thomases. Two points I'd like to make, the first I hinted at in my first message: that the fact IS that praying doesn't help the medically, very physically hurt. With the stroke victim of whom I spoke, some ultra believers did a hands-on prayer but the truth is that this person lived but still can't talk, etc., etc. 6 years later. And a cousin who spread the word died in Viet Nam throwing himself on a grenade to save the others. Why was he taken? But on to the second point: I think it's wonderful that the Pope finally allowed research into Biblical things to go on. I love watching those shows comparing actual history to stories in the Bible. I eat it up. Guess I'm looking for some proof. Lastly, I think it's great that we're all giving our identity. Don't ya know we're not supposed to talk about religion or politics? And post-lastly, yes, I've read quite a lot of the Bible.

I was born Roman Catholic. According to them, I was also born with original sin. What's with that? It was a sin to go to another church. What's with that? A sin to eat meat on Friday, then it wasen't? Saint Christopher, then he is gone?
With my personality, by the age of eight, there wasn't an adult on the face of this earth that could make me go through those church doors, unless they picked me up and carried me in kicking and screaming.
I have a brother in law who is very religious, and he is also a raciest pig. A friend of mine is a priest, and he has a girlfriend.
It's all just a bunch of hairy men making and changing the rules.
Once again, I would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. The sinners are much more fun!
Now, if that means that I am going to hell, so be it. Who knows, I might like it there. I know that it will be nice and warm.. RJ

My father had pretty un-orthodox ideas and so took us to the un-orthodox churches where we would burn in Hell, and there were demons and dragons all around, and the people rolled in the aisles. So I formed my own thoughts at about the same age as you RoJo. I find a lot of hypocrites too, but I've known some who are truly gracious and God fearing, good family people. I just go with what I feel's right and everyone else can do what they want to. BTW, how many of you bought pretty new clothes to go to church this Easter when it's only one of the few times you go? Easter and Christmas.

Fantastic.. I am with you Guys..Show me a rule and I will break it..Show me an arrow on the road and I will go the wrong way. Show me a dishonest hypocrite and I will want to smack them in the mouth...Roman Catholic..well some would say the most sucessful Cult ever, not sure I would got that far..hey along with Jesus, I HATE religion...

BUT, I belive that our creator God is alive and well.
Jesus was raised up from the Dead. You Guys are the one who need the proof that he DIDNT! ! not me I have mine. Many have tried and come away convinced it happened as recorded...I dont have all the answers..but I know that to be true.

Pray, Oh I have, believe me. We sure did..Over our Child. Did our Child Die in front of us?...oh yes ....... Do I believe God loves me and you and our Child.
Oh yes I do.
Will I see Charles Manson in Heaven? Dont think so but I may well do? Time will tell who knows.
Every knee will bow before God some day..EVERY Knee.
Oh one other thing Bones. Your friend in Nam..so sorry don't know what to say. Brings tears to my eyes to think about that.

why is it be good to fear God bones ? Is what you feel is right, right ? what if it is not right. and if everyone else does what they want to do and they want bad things is that still ok with you? I only ask the question. I do not know what the answer might be. I wonder if many people try to see if what they say makes sense when they are asked the question. many people just talk what they feel. what many people feel is not what is right. not what makes rational.This is bigger thing than how person feels. this is ethics. Many great writers think of this and difficult conclusion. Tolstoy Kant Aristotle others. not go with what feels right. think hard on it. go with right because of reason not feel. I like these question. much thought not easy qanswer

Okay, guys, ease up a bit. Point one, thanks for the sentiment about my cousin. Point two, God fearing was probably not the best choice of words. God loving? No we shouldn't fear God if there is one and we live a good life. Point three, I meant that others could believe what they want, it's their right. It's not their right to kill, abuse children, all that stuff. Point four, my choice of path in life, my choice of belief and faith, is what I have thought long and hard about. Thought. I have a brain, and just because I don't feel what each of you feels does not make my thoughts wrong. Or yours wrong. No, can't prove you wrong or right about Jesus rising from the dead, but it seems pretty unlikely to me. Also seems unlikely that Mary conceived immaculately. I do believe that nature and science are pretty phenomenal, but I'm not sure about "who" is responsible. Okay, next?

Thanks Bones..Yes It does sound heavy now that I re read it..I do tend to just look at bottom lines on any thing important, not just feelings. Were you in Nam? Thinking about your friend..what a Man to have done that. Thanks for the discussion. helped me clarify my thoughts as well.

I would like to suggest for those that are interested to read the book "Conversations with God", book 1, written by Neal Donald Walsch. It made sense and helped me,like it might help many others that are searching to understand, it is up to each of us to know, experience and be what God wants us to create.

I believe in god and I am part of God, when I hurt someone, I am hurting others for we are all one in spirit, god's spirit. Yes,we are part of God's spirit, female, or male and we have the free will to create what we want to be, to do with life as will. God just wants us to remember who we are, and experience what God is.

Colin, I replied and accepted your apology but the message hasn't come through yet. I wasn't in Nam cuz I'm a girl, or was a girl, and kept the home fires burning. anyway, this is getting to a point of none of us convincing the other, which I'm not really trying to do, just wanted to say my opinion. The question was Is there a God, What proof is there? So, I think we've exhausted this one. How 'bout, "What would you have done differently in your life?" If we're all over 50, I'm sure we could get some wise answers, or at least some wise-ass answers.

none of are born a "certain religion", we are babies when were born and then we are usually raised in a "religion" I had a Christian Science believing mother and a Jehoviah Witness believing father and I was raised attending a United church. well the Christian science belief,(to me) makes absolutely no sense, and the JW,s less and the United church missed a lot of the important facts, again I say (to me) so I too wanted to get the answers..to make a long story shorter, I joined a Bible study of no particular religion, with people like me wanting answers, and began 7 years of Bible studies..then looked for a Bible preaching church and found one in the Baptist church. I want my answers from God, not man. I do not want anyone to feel I am preaching to them so this is what I would suggest to everyone who is looking for answers. Thats how I found mine. I too have lost a daughter and a week before she passed away she asked me, Mom, Am I going to die? And I was able to tell her, I don,t know sweetheart but this is what God tells us about death.....and she looked at me and said "I,m not afraid of dying because Jesus is waiting for me and Mom I,ll be there with him waiting for you....Now if I am wrong for believing what the Bible says....Am I wrong???

There is no right or wrong cat. This is going to sound silly, but reading what you had to say about your daughter brought trars to my eyes.
bones.. What would I have done different? - Talked less and listened more - Thought twice before jumping into situations and relationships -Told my mom and dad that I loved them more often -I could go on and on, but what's the point? What's done is done.
ps.. bones, you still are a girl and always will be.. RJ

Just a small point:If there wasn't a GOD , then where did you all get the inner strength from in times of great turmoil? Faith? - in what/who? You must've had to believe to carry on.Ponder this please.

One can get their inner strength from anything or anywhere. GOD can be one of them. If you are saying that we all get our inner strengh from GOD, well you forgot about me.. RJ

By bones on Friday, April 27, 2001 - 08:17 am:

Bible is capitalized and even I have enough respect to capitalize it. Reincarnation means you die and come back as someone else, not Jesus' teachings, and if there's truth in Jesus being devine, then He's not God, He's part of the Trinity, and one can believe in God without believing in Jesus being his devine son. Inner strength comes from IN-side and mine came from life experiences which weren't all beauty and grace. I'm on RJ's side.

By Glory on Friday, April 27, 2001 - 05:58 am:

If there isn't a God, a creator in every living thing, who knows all, how did we all get here and evolute to where we are today. Something is keeping the so perfect structured universe as we know evoluting and we all have the same energy to create or destroy what God has given us. Everything is within us. God wants us to remember the highest feeling (love).
We are all searching for the highest feeling. That is what God wants us to experience (God) and many of us will have many lifetimes before we evolute and remember we are that highest feeling (God) There is no heaven or hell, just God.

I am as well brought up Roman Catholic, believe in Jesus, for he is god. I also thank God, Jesus for what has been done for me, but believe it is up to me to create who I want to be in all of this.

Studying Jesus's teachings, whether it be in a bible or practicing a particular religion which is our start in remembering and learning, it is then up to us to continue our purpose of experiencing God and to get to the ultimate feeling in whatever way suits us best.

Glory, I believe in love.. All the rest, I don't know.. RJ

Bones, if you don't believe in Jesus, you don't believe in God. They are all one in the Trinty.

Glory, now that's preaching. So, are you saying that Jews and many many others don't believe in God? ..RJ

God, the father. Jesus, the son, and the holy spirit are all in one. Just as a flower has the root, the stem and the flower. All in one. quite simple if you look at it like this. All three in one and to believe in God is to believe in His son and to believe in God is to believe in the Holy Spirit. Correct Bones, reincarnation is not God,s teachings.But when God,s word says there is a heaven and there is a Hell I would choose not to argue against what God tells me. I have been on 4 occasions with someone who is dying and my observation is this. The dying Christian is not afraid of the unknown because he knows....the non believer fights death to the final moment...And wasn,t it the Jews who turned against their saviour??

So see, you feel that your belief is the ONLY belief. As for death, I've already spoken about my lack of fear of where I'll go. And I think there are believers who would sure have rather lived than died. Preaching doesn't work, it converts no one, it only turns them away, and the above piece is so typical of my first sentence. Yours is definitely NOT the only way to believe.

Bones, I am not trying to convert or convince you. I was just posting my thoughts which is what I have done. I,m sorry if I have offended you. Not my intention. and your absolutely correct, there are many beliefs and we are hearing them here. So accept my apologies. Maybe I should put "these are my thoughts and beliefs" before I say anything. And it doesn,t and has never bothered me how any person thinks. That,s what makes us individuals..

This is probably the most interesting discussion I've seen on here. Like some others I was raised Roman Catholic and, if asked, identify myself as Catholic although I'm not the least bit active. Guess I was lucky because my parents encouraged questioning anything we learned in catechism and exposed us to other churches. As a result I tend to believe that all people, good or bad,(whatever that means) are children of a loving God and therefore it doesn't matter how they identify that God. Personally, think we all (Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, etc.) pray to the same God, we just call it something different. Someone mentioned the book "Conversations with God", by Walsch. Just started reading it and think it brings up some really interesting theories.

No apology needed, wasn't offended. These are just my thoughts and beliefs also. This has been a fun discussion, most interesting as the last message states, and actually, we've all been quite brave to voice just what we feel. Sometimes can't do that face to face, but everyone, I'm out of this one, don't feel like expressing any more of my thoughts on this subject.

Here here bones. You all made me think, and I learned too! Dosen't get much bettwer than that! ..RJ

Better? Or bettwer? I guess that works.. RJ

Sorry to say that in reading through here, particularly, Bones... is that you lack the necessary courage to answer this question..

1...Was Jesus a Madman?

2...Was he a Crook and dishonest person?

3...Or was he the son of God?

I don't go on "feelings", but proof. It has been prooved to my satisfaction and believe the world is NOT flat. My guess is that you will not deal with this and are afraid to answer, and would rather just continue to be in Denial.
I await with interest.

Colin, I believe if you'd read through correctly and honestly, I've had more than courage to stay in the discussion as long as I did. Religion is not a favorite topic in most circles because all get to an impasse, which is where this one has gotten. Again, just because I don't think the way you do does not make me a person doomed to Hell, or a bad person in any way. Here's what I think: that a mortal man named Jesus did exist but I don't believe he was the son of God, but that he was a good man for sure who shared his beliefs with all who would listen. Why in heck did you ask the first two questions? I said nothing...NOTHING of the kind. I know for a fact also that the world is a sphere. Before you attack, re-read what you've written and see if the words are maybe a little harsher than what Jesus' teachings would warrant if you're a Christian as you say you are.

Apology to Colin, thought the message was from you but it was from a Colin-supporter, so my answer is directed to that person instead, who showed no courage in not revealing his site name. So now, I'll say again that I choose not to add anything more to this discussion not from lack of courage but from the subject being exhausted.

After reading the previuos comments,I would like to tell you all a short story. i was raised in a "hell fire,and brimestone" baptist family. Years ago I LOST MY FAITH.After I lost my daughter because like some of you I thought if there is a god how can He allow this to happen. for years I wanted to blame him or anyone else for that loss,and did. Three years ago my son was in a devastating car wreck, which after seeing the remnants of his truck, no one should have survived. now everyday this gal thanks God for sparing my child. so whether you believe in a supreme being or not is your choice,but someone is watching over us, and allows us to love and be loved.may all of you be safe and happy regardsless of what you believe.

Bone, I believe God is Love. I don't think religion are a certain church will take you anywhere. I am a christian, but I think we have to practice it daily. I believe we have to treat people the way we want to be treated. I find it very hard at times to do this. I know when people accuse you of things you are suppose to forgive them. I was falsely accused of something and was jumped on and verbally abused and wasn't guilty. I enjoy the posting here. nurseal

Hi Bones, Yes I do support Colin in what he says.
Now that you have recognized that Jesus was here,
the question is, Do you now have the Courage yes courage to explore the clear evidence that he was killed and then returned to life..WITH OUT that He was NOT a GOOD man if he didn't ..he was a CROOK. if he did not rise from the dead. Hundreds yes Hundreds of people saw him and have given DOCUMENTED evidence to that. The World is full of people NOT willing to take that step. With out that I would just give it away. The real Bad news is that any one who does not recognise Jesus on this Earth will ....well you read it your self.

Bones, you are never going to get off this subject, like you want to do, so just agree with them. lol.. RJ .. preach preach preach on folks..

Facts Rojo..They NEVER go away.. Run but you can not hide. :-)

Well so far I see the believers outweigh the non believers. Thats very interesting. It,s also interesting to see tempers flare a little. Believers don,t have to get angry on discussions on whether there is a God or not, as they know within themselves there certainly is. Thats called inner peace folks. a peace that passes all understanding. We who truly know who Jesus is know the truth so there is no need to throw pearls in front of swine...(That is bibical,) Christians don,t need to keep hearing God,s word trampled. Jesus came here on earth to show us the way, died for all sinners (that is all) and rose again. That is how much he loved us and some can,t have a discussion without an anger arising. Jesus let...let...himself be nailed on a cross for these people because he loved us all and wants all to come on bended knee and become His child so we can have an everlasting life in eternity. How much better can that get???

Hello Cat..Well said. I am not angry, but it is so important that people face this now rather than when it is too late. Good people (better than me) will do every thing to not face these things. Strong debate yes but very sad that as I say very good people will well...you know. I will continue to pray for them thought. :-)
Susan.

Creation itself in it's infinity should be evidence enough! We do not see the wind, yet no rational person doubt's it's existence. One way or the other ... we are here. If by evolution... where did the original matter or energy come from? If it was always there.. how much more logical to give credit to a great designer .. who has put perfect organization into all aspects of life.. only man with his greed and coveteousness has ruined a good thing..

B

Hi there Bones, you have raised some good comments so far.

Just in reply to your comments... "Here's what I think: that a mortal man named Jesus did exist but I don't believe he was the son of God, but that he was a good man for sure who shared his beliefs with all who would listen." Bones

You see it is impossible for Jesus to just be a 'good man'. He claimed to be the 'Son of God' and 'the way, the truth and the life" He claimed to be Lord of all. 'take up your cross and follow me', he claimed to 'rise from the dead'.

If he wasn't or isn't these things or didn't rise from the dead, then he was lying and not only deceived his followers but has started the worlds largest cult/religion based on lies and deceit, leading millions astray. Not what the majority of people would define as a 'good man'.

So we must either dismiss him as a liar or recognise him as the Almighty God he claimed to be.

Which one is he? Liar or Lord?

Glory, great to see your postings...Here is an example of a friendship between two people of 50 years that have different thoughts on God and are still good frineds. you and I. God loves us all

Yes, Cat that is so true. In spite of our differences and discussions about our beliefs, we have stayed true good friends. I don't think our beliefs are that much different though in the long run. We both believe in God but have become to know God through different means, and each have had our own experiences in life. God does love us all and we are all in one spirit with God to love one another.

The most difficult time for an Athiest is when he is very thank full and has no one to thank!

Can I contribute my two pennies? I don't know whether there is a God or not. I don't think that it matters greatly either at the end of the day - or by what name you call this God. Doesn't the Bible say something like "In my master's house there are many rooms?" I take this to mean that all religions use a different word to describe "their" guiding spiritual being, but all of them lead to a core belief in "Someone". Even if they are all deluded, if their belief leads them to live calmer, kinder and less selfish lives then they can believe in a chair leg in the sky for all I care. And at the moment of dying or great trauma/danger it would be interesting to know how many people pray "just in case". We will never know the truth for certain - and I don't think we need to. If there IS a God, he's not going to reveal himself to us worms is he? And if there isn't, well there are worse things than false hope. Live and let live.

Bones I like the way you think. What was the God Oh Mighty thinking when he did all his creating? T

Please Isa don't make that mistake again, I am a Buddhist and Buddhist don't PRAY. To us, "He prayeth best, who loveth best, both man and bird and beast. There just is no point in planting an apple tree and prying to it five times a day, it will never bear bananas.

Thanks Firefly for throwing in some reason. We each need to believe what's in our heart and not try to apply our view to everyone else. Whatever one's belief is, is then the right belief for that person, but it doesn't make it the ONLY belief. Nor does it make other beliefs wrong. I think I'm correct in saying that all religions teach to be good to one another, to live a good life. In THAT way, they are all good.

As a Buddhist you worship a dead monument dont you? Christians Worship a ...living.... and real God from what I can see. Very 'nice' to say every one is correct but it is just not possible for all views to be right is it. There must be only one 'truth'..surely?

Colin, I'm glad that you put a question mark after surely. To me, discussing religion is like a circle turning in on itself, you end up at the start, and nothing is accomplished.. RJ

OK can you deal with teh question I put? No I am not discussing religion..i hate Religion,
Give historical facts..every thing else requires too much faith for me..I have read all your comments on this subject but you are not propared to answer questions. mmmm What does that show?
Head in the sand maybe? I am not after a fight just a robust conversation, so dont want to sound rude.

Colin, I don't have an answer to your question.. It is all moot to me. Faith, you got it!!! -- But, "I hate religion?" -- You must have an agenda here.. Hate? -- You want to fight? I'll fight, but not about this.. Kisses and hugs.. RJ

Rojo...Kisses and hugs.. RJ? Yuk,,,
What are they for?..do that to me buster and i will fight..
Agenda????? no its just that I dont like my head covered in sand! it tends to block the ears. I have never experienced that but perhaps you have?
It seems to happen to people who will not face facts! Keep doing that if you must but watch for the incoming tide, and sunburnt rear end!!! :-)

Bones,
Once again you raise some good topics!

God made us each with a free will to either accept him or reject him. There is no point in Christians trying to 'apply their view' to anyone else. All people can do is share what we each have discovered to be true.

Also, unfortunately, just because someone believes something in their heart, doesn't mean it is right or the truth. As you would know, a lot of people believe it is right to murder children or drive drunk or steal money if they need it or what about the Satanist who beleives in sacrificing humans?

There are also a lot of 'Wacked-out' religions out there, with all kinds of strange ideas.

Still others believe there should be no governments or common laws. Lots of people have their own beliefs in their heart, but don't we need to all believe in and seek the truth!

The thing with Christianity is that, as Colin would no doubt agree (ease up on the hugs from Rojo :), it's not a religion. Religion is 'Man's attempt at reaching out to God through his own good works'. Christianity is all about having a meaningful,loving relationship with the true God of the universe. We don't have to earn anything, just accept him into our heart.

(I'm not trying to argue with you, just enjoy having thought provoking discussions with intelligent people. I am your friend! :)

PS You don't have to reply to this, just digest... :)

Oh, but I have to answer, Mark. Silence would mean you had quieted me. :-) Now, what I meant to also say was that "faith", (which I called religion, perhaps using the wrong word), is not the same as "cult". Saying that all religions are then good if they teach to be good to each other, etc., is not saying the same as "whatever you believe, right or wrong, good or bad" is good. If someone's faith teaches them the "being good to each other" stuff, then it's good. And that's all of them, all the faiths. But, if your faith teaches you that, and you choose not to follow, like sleeping around, yelling at your kids, living "good" only on the day you go to church, that's not living your faith. Cults such as Karesh's or Jones' are doing just the opposite than what the "faith" they professed had initially taught them, and many, many suffered. I'm also not arguing. I'm voicing my opinion just like the rest. I just don't quite believe what the rest believe, and that's perfectly okay.